Revolutionizing Acne Treatment Through Bacteriophage Technology With with Yug Varma of Phyla

Episode Overview

Episode Topic

Join us for an enlightening episode of Holistic Health Habits as we develop into the groundbreaking world of microbiome research and bacteriophage technology with Yug Varma, founder and CTO of Phyla. This episode explores how Phyla is revolutionizing skincare, particularly in treating acne, through innovative biotechnology. Discover the inspiration behind Yug’s journey, from his extensive academic background to the formation of Phyla, and learn how microbiome health can transform approaches to holistic health, nutrition, and skincare.

Lessons You’ll Learn

In this episode, you’ll learn about the pivotal role of the microbiome in maintaining skin health and the cutting-edge technology Phyla uses to target acne-causing bacteria without harming beneficial skin bacteria. Yug Varma shares insights into the limitations of traditional acne treatments and how Phyla’s phage technology offers a gentler, more effective solution. You’ll also gain an understanding of the gut-skin axis and the impact of diet and hydration on skin health, providing a comprehensive view of how lifestyle choices can influence overall skin wellness.

About Our Guest

Yug Varma is the founder and CTO of Phyla, a pioneering company in microbiome research and bacteriophage technology. With a Ph.D. from Johns Hopkins and postdoctoral work at UCSF, Yug’s background in microbiology, synthetic biology, and organic chemistry positions him at the forefront of innovative skincare solutions. His passion for utilizing phage technology to address chronic skin conditions like acne drives Phyla’s mission to provide holistic, long-term health benefits through advanced scientific research.

Topics Covered

This episode covers a range of topics crucial for understanding modern skincare solutions. We discuss the science behind Phyla’s phage technology and its unique ability to target specific acne-causing bacteria while preserving the skin’s microbiome. Yug explains the connection between diet, hydration, and skin health, emphasizing the gut-skin axis. The conversation also explores the challenges of traditional acne treatments, the importance of microbiome diversity, and Phyla’s future plans to address other skin conditions like eczema. Tune in to gain valuable insights into balancing innovation, user engagement, and business scalability in the skincare industry.

Our Guest: Yug Varma “Healthy Skin Starts with a Balanced Microbiome.”

Episode Transcript

Surani Fernando:  Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Holistic Health Habits nutrition expert speak. I’m your host, Surani Fernando, and I’m excited to welcome today’s guest, Yug Varma, founder and CTO of Fila. Fila is a company pioneering the use of microbiome research and bacteriophage technology to create holistic, long term solutions for acne and other chronic diseases. Yug is a trained microbiologist and synthetic biologist with a background in organic chemistry, and his expertise in microbiome health is reshaping approaches to holistic health, nutrition and skincare. Thanks for joining the podcast, Yug.

Yug Varma: Hey, Surani. Nice,  nice to see you. And thanks for having me.

Surani Fernando: Yeah, great. Great to. Let’s,  start us off with,  just, you know, more about yourself.  can you tell us a bit about your background? You know, you’ve got a pretty impressive academic background, you know, tell us a bit about that. Your education and what really led you here to be the founder of Fila.

Yug Varma: Yeah. So so my background is I’m a scientist.  I originally educated, grew, grew up in India, came to the US for my PhD,  which was at Johns Hopkins. And then after that I did a postdoc at UCSF.  and,  after spending over a decade in academia, I decided to start the this company for for a bunch of reasons. The first was I was following this really powerful technology called bacteriophage technology, or phage technology for short. That’s the technology that our company uses.  and to date, I’ve been following it around for about 18, 19 years. So it’s been a while.  I’m really passionate about this technology. I think it’s really powerful. And when used in the, you know, to solve the right problem, it can have a huge impact. And I think we’ve proven that out. So one of my first impulses was to kind of work with this technology and use it to solve a really big problem. The second was, as I was sort of casting around for a good sort of problem to solve with this technology, I kind of stbled across acne as as kind of a market, as a disease indication. Now, acne obviously is a huge problem worldwide. It affects more than 85% of us at some point in our life, which means it’s almost a nearly universal experience. Right?.  it’s,  you know, the the products that we use for acne are pretty much harsh across the board and come with a lot of side effects that, you know, no one really wants.

Yug Varma: But the problem, really is that we haven’t innovated in acne for decades. So it’s been more than 40 years since the most powerful drug for acne, Accutane, came out. There’s been almost nothing since then.  and the result is that I felt people were so underserved in this indication, this condition that is the nber one skin condition that, you know, people are, you know, suffering from. And clearly it it hasn’t been solved. Right. We haven’t found the ideal solution for it. And reflecting on the body of sort of,  microbiome research, epidemiological research that has been done on acne, it pointed very clearly to what, you know, an ideal solution could be. And what we realized was with phage technology, we could build this ideal solution. And the question was a, you know, can you prove out the science? And B, can you make a product that, you know, when you put out there, people will want to buy, people will love, and hopefully it’ll make them think, oh, wow, this is a powerful solution for acne. I wonder if they can do this. Maybe for eczema,  for psoriasis. And then we go out and build that next product. So that’s how it started.  and it’s going pretty well.

Surani Fernando: Okay. And you know, obviously, you know, you mentioned there’s a lot of products out there, you know, Accutane, you know, what was the like. What about that is, is, you know, harsh and not as effective and where you saw the gap to do something different, especially with the microbiome research that you have.

Yug Varma: Yeah. I mean, sort of going back to what really causes acne. Acne, obviously, we know is a multifactorial disease. It’s complicated. It’s affected by diet and stress and genetics and hormones.  but one of the main drivers of acne is the overgrowth of one bacteria on our skin, which is C acnes. And this is reflected, you know, as you were asking about in in the kinds of products we use to treat acne. So whether you look at benzoyl peroxide or antibiotics or retinoids, they all have an antibacterial effect, right? They kill bacteria. So they’re trying to kill this one bad bacteria. But what we realized, especially with microbiome research, is there’s not just one bacteria on our skin. There’s a whole garden. There’s a huge amount of diversity. There’s a complex, you know, community that lives on our skin. And it doesn’t just live there, you know, for no reason. It lives there. And it protects our skin in a very, very important way, in the sense that without it, we would really be defenseless against a nber of, of microbial kind of attacks and colonization on our skin. Yeah. So recognizing the importance of this really complex community and then knowing that when you when you use antibiotics every day or benzoyl peroxide every day or Accutane every day for months and months, what you’re doing is you’re kind of indiscriminately killing both the good and the bad bacteria. You’re thinning out this protective layer to the point where it can’t support itself, it cannot protect you. And so no wonder that acne relapses are one of the most common experiences that people with acne suffer from, which is something works. You know, all of these products work, but after a while, because they’ve depleted your microbiome, they cause your skin to relapse and have acne over and over again. And that’s one of the most frustrating experiences because you spend all this time, this money, this emotional kind of energy into finding something that works. You think it’s going well, but then you’re back to square one, and that’s the one thing you want to prevent people from going through.

Surani Fernando: Okay. So then how does your and you know, we can talk about one particular product. I know that you have a few products,  that you’ve innovated. You know, how does your innovation behind the products work differently to, address that.

Yug Varma: Yeah.  so our technology is is phage technology. And with our technology, what we can do is we can kill one bacteria that’s causing the disease without hurting any of the other bacteria in your microbiome. Now, we know with acne the bad bacteria is C acnes. And so we have a phage that’s kind of tuned to finding killing. And and you know, reducing the overgrowth of C acnes on your skin and know that it doesn’t. We’ve shown very elegantly that this does not hit any other bacteria on your skin. Any of the good bacteria are completely unaffected. They keep growing. And in fact, what you’re doing is because you’re killing this C acnes, which is, by the way, the nber one bacteria by nbers on your skin. You’re you’re making a lot more space for the other bacteria. So not only are we seeing people’s acne go away and their C acnes count’s reduced to a healthy level, but we’re also seeing an incredible explosion of microbiome diversity. We’re seeing a bloom in the good bacteria that supports your skin health. And the hope is with constant use of the product, you’re balancing your microbiome, you’re keeping it in balance, and you’re you’re getting that microbiome diversity up so that you’re building a more resilient community that can stand up for itself, right. And prevent, on its own future outbreaks of acne by reducing the overgrowth of C acnes. And so that’s really the big difference. Yeah.

Surani Fernando: And you know we’re talking about skincare  here. And the microbiome can have to do with the skin. But you know often when we talk about microbiome, we think about the gut and we think about gut bacteria. Can you maybe explain the connection there with the microbiome on the skin that’s perhaps also informed by what we’re eating? I think it’s like the gut skin axis. Like do you want to sort of break that down a little bit?

Yug Varma: Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, I think of the microbiome as this rainforest, right? It’s an invisible rainforest that’s in our skin. There’s one in the gut. There’s one in our mouth. There’s one on our skin.  most surfaces have a microbiome.  now, this rainforest is invisible because it’s trees essentially are bacteria, viruses and fungi. Microbes that live together, work together and form this community. And it’s largely protective in the sense that if we have a missing or a nonfunctioning microbiome, or one that’s out of balance, we see profound health implications. And this works for whether you have an imbalance in your gut microbiome or an imbalance on your skin, or an imbalance in your mouth. Right.  now the gut obviously is has been much more studied. It is something that intuitively, most of your listeners would understand and be aware of. Right. So for example, we know that we it’s it’s healthy to have high fiber foods because the fiber that we don’t digest goes into our gut and nourishes our gut microbiome. We know that fermented foods are really important because it introduces beneficial probiotics. And eating that regularly is what really sort of promotes gut health for the long term. And we’ve known for a long time that there is a gut skin axis. Well, not a long time, but for a long time in microbiome research that there is a gut skin microbiome axis, for one, because the gut and the skin are two of the highest,  kind of boundaries of immune surveillance in our body. And what that means is that the immune system sends a bunch of its cells right up against the layer of our gut and the layer of our skin, And a lot of these cells are kind of putting an ear up against the wall and listening in.

Yug Varma: Right. And they’re constantly monitoring the,  composition, the population in our gut microbiome, in our skin microbiome, and kind of sipping a little bit and saying, oh, you know what’s up? What’s out there? Is it imbalance? Is it is that’s fine. Or do I need to send an inflammation. And really a lot of the dysbiotic diseases of both the gut and the skin are inflammation, diseases of inflammation. Right. So you think of IBD, IBS, Crohn’s, ulcerative colitis in the gut, acne, eczema, psoriasis in the skin.  for acne particularly, there hasn’t been a huge,  sort of we don’t have any evidence that there’s a big gut skin connection, but for example, diet. Let’s take diet, right? Obviously for some people, not all who suffer from acne, eating things that inflame their acne have kind of an immediate effect on it, right? Yeah. For those people, what’s happening is when they eat something, it induces their body to change the production of seb which is the natural oil our face produces on their skin. Now, the seb is the nber one preferred food for C acnes, much more than any other bacteria on your skin. And so when you eat that and that change occurs, you’re feeding this acne bacteria. It grows out of proportion and it causes your body to create inflammation. And that’s kind of the most direct version of that.

Surani Fernando: Yeah. Yeah. That’s interesting. I mean I, I didn’t growing up, I didn’t have a huge acne problem obviously, you know, like everyone does, you know, going through like with hormones and things like that, cycles and things like that. But I did have,  something that I definitely knew was connected with diet. I used to have some, I think it’s called like milia, like just little bps. It’s not quite acne, but it definitely was connected with when I changed certain things in diet. And I noticed when things would come back and it would be more like inflammatory foods, like, you know, bad foods.  it would be just. And I was just like, well, like, you know, there’s definitely a direct link there. And you do hear that? You know, what you eat, you know, just starts to you start to see inflammation in different parts of your, of your body, including your skin. Obviously hydration. Would you say hydration is also a big thing that,  affects that equilibri?

Yug Varma: Oh, absolutely. I mean, and we all know this, right? When we’re poorly hydrated for a certain amount of time, you see that effect on your skin? Yeah. Your hydration levels,  reflect the quality and the kind of freshness of your skin. And it’s the same thing, as you said, with eating,  you know, foods that kind of inflame you, that cause inflammation. And there is, you know, beyond acne, if you put acne to one side, then the effects of systemic inflammation will show up systemically everywhere in your body. Right? Like you can have symptoms in your gut, you can have symptoms on your face. And you’ll have, you know, general malaise, that feeling of kind of, oh, you know, lethargy and,  I can’t really pick myself up and I don’t feel great. So,  in a systemic way, all of that 100% is interconnected. And it’s something that, you know, most of your listeners will be familiar with at some point in their life. They’re like, yeah, you know, I ate something and it didn’t agree with me. I recently this this spring, while traveling, I had food poisoning, and I looked at myself in the mirror and I was like, yeah, you look like someone who has food poisoning and just right of your skin. Yeah, kind of signals that. So. Yeah.

Surani Fernando: Right. Yeah, definitely. And so tell us a little bit about, you know, the products that you have developed.  under the Fila brand. And what would be your top selling products or your most successful products.

Yug Varma: Yeah. Well, before I talk about our products, I want to go back to something you said earlier, which is that you kind of, you know, most of your life, you just haven’t had acne, right? And for a small nber of us, right. The lucky ones, that is the case. And it’s kind of interesting a lot of I think everyone listening probably has a friend or a family member or someone they know who has just annoyingly clear skin, who just wakes up, doesn’t really take care of their skin, but they’re like, I don’t know, I just it just never struck me. Acne. I was never a thing in my life.

Surani Fernando: I mean, I want to clarify, my skin was never just, like, clear. There were the, you know, odd pimple here and there at different times. But, you know, I had friends that just had acne and they would be trying like Proactiv. They, you know, they were trying all these things because it would just be chronic, like they would have that problem.

Yug Varma: Yeah, exactly. And by the way, your skin looks amazing. Oh, but yeah. And I think your story is kind of similar to mine. I never had a ton of acne growing up. You know, you had the occasional pimple or, you know, you realize your face is greasy and after a few days you’re like, well, yeah, I should wash my face, but it goes away quickly. Well, people have done,  microbiome sort of studies of of healthy skin and acne skin to figure out, you know, what’s different between them. What they discovered was that there’s an organism that’s on healthy skin, but it’s not on acne skin, and it’s quite consistent. So, for example, when you get older, if you have healthy skin, the amount of this organism is much, much higher. So it acculates and kind of lives better over time. This organism is a phage. It’s a phage that kills and eats the acnes. Right. And it’s the same organism that we have done research on and that we have kind of put in a bottle because we said, hey, there are people out there who go through their life not really being touched by acne for the most part. They have great skin, healthy skin, and the reason they have it. What’s different about them versus people who have acne is this one organism. So why can’t we put this phage in a bottle, make it available to everyone, and democratize it in a way so that you may not have been blessed or born or kissed by faith to have clear skin, but you can have the benefit of clear skin by putting this organism on your skin that healthy people naturally have.

Yug Varma:  And so going to our products, we have a very simple three step system. We, we really believe in kind of minimalism and giving people what their skin needs and nothing more.  so our our system is really a cleanser, a moisturizer, a ser and a moisturizer.  the ser has our secret sauce. It has our technology with live, active phases. The other two are kind of companion products, which we built to be microbiome friendly, because we know that many other products out there would kill the phages or negatively affect them. And the last thing we want is for you to put this amazing biotechnology product on your face and then immediately kill it, right? Right. So we have the cleanser. You start with the cleanser. It’s a very gentle gel cleanser. It’s non foaming and it won’t strip your skin of, of oils.  and you apply that  to your skin, it opens up your pores. It has salicylic acid and tea tree oil which, which are great gentle exfoliators.  and what you want is to open up your pores to receive the phages. Next you go to our ser which is our hero product.  they have the live active phages. So you apply them to your skin and they immediately get to work.

Yug Varma: They will kill only the bad bacteria and balance your microbiome without hurting any of the good bacteria on your skin.  and finally, you know, we know a lot of,  a large part of our customer base is people who have applied all sorts of things on their face for acne from, you know, drugstore brands to brand A, B, and C, they’ve gone to the dermatologist, you know, they’ve really seen and been through everything. And as a result, their skin has had a lot of damage. So the moisturizer is really to seal in the moisture. It’s very light. Non-greasy and obviously non-comedogenic.  and yeah, it’s a great supporting product for people who have,  you know, really dry skin. So it’s a simple three step product that is meant to fit into everyone’s daily regimen. And really, unlike most acne products, which you take for short bursts of time, partly because they’re really harsh on your skin and your skin can’t tolerate it long term. The unfortunate thing is that acne affects us on a much longer timescale months and years. Right? And so you need a product that’s going to be your companion that you can incorporate in your daily use regimen and that that won’t inflame your skin, that will be gentle but will deliver a tangible benefit. And that’s really the ethos by which we built this brand and all of our products.

Surani Fernando: Okay. And obviously, you know, you’re a biotechnology company, you’re a scientist,  you know, and believe in evidence. And I’m so I’m curious as to what sort of studies you’ve done, you know, clinical trials, what things you’ve published really back up the claims that your products have.

Yug Varma: Yes. So we’ve run a clinical trial on this. We’re actually in the process of launching a few more smaller studies.  we’ve launched a clinic. We ran a clinical trial a few years ago.  and it proved out a few things. First, it showed how safe this is. So, you know, our product has zero side effects. No redness, no dryness, no irritation, none of the, you know, more scary stuff that people with harsher acne drugs experience. Yeah.  we also saw a significant increase in,  effects efficacy. So basically, people’s acne got better over the eight week,  trial period.  we found that it was it got better because people’s see, acne levels were decreasing. And finally we found that over the course of eight weeks, which is a relatively short period of time, we’re already starting to see the microbiome kind of bloom, right?  because you’re decreasing the overgrowth of this one dominant bacteria, you’re starting to see a lot of the good bacteria, kind of,   expand, diversify and occupy a greater role in the microbiome as they should.  and so those are really, really powerful pieces of evidence showing that this stuff works. And also it may be critical for your long term skin health,  in keeping acne away.  we have more studies planned for acne, and we’re actually moving forward from acne into other indications, which we can solve with our phage technology.

Surani Fernando: Okay. And just to clarify, you mentioned that,  this phage, what you noticed was it was more on people when they were as they got older. Is that right? And that’s how so it is, is that just natural? Is that something that we just lucky to have more of, or is that also informed by environment, you know, habits, diet, things like that?

Yug Varma:  it’s probably a bit of both.  so the hypothesis that came out of that paper was,  so the observation was that people who are healthy and have have had a history of healthy skin, they tend to have the most prevalence of these particular pages on their skin right now. What what does that mean and what does that imply?  it means that,  as you go through life, right, we’re rubbing our skin up against,  other people, right? When we have relationships, when we have family and kids and so on. And so these are all each of those skin to skin contact events is an opportunity for a bacterial exchange or an organism exchange between two microbiomes and as a result, as you go through life and increase the nber of these events, the chances are higher that a phage might jp over and live on your skin and end up. And if it ends up living there long term, then you get that health benefit right now.  we also know that acne kind of is a more of a teenager’s disease. Now it’s in early adulthood, but as you get older, you’re acting kind of drops off and no one really knows why. And this could be one of the most powerful mechanisms by which that happens and is kind of relegating acne to more of the province of teenagers and maybe young adults and not people who, like, get older. So it’s a really fascinating observation.

Surani Fernando: Okay. And with that, do you see your product is used,  in specific age groups. And, you know, within your clinical trials, you, you enrolled specific age groups?

Yug Varma: Yeah, I mean, a large part of our conser base is,  you know, people in their early adulthood, in their 20s and 30s,  skews more towards women.  and again, you know, a lot of them have gone through acne in their teenage years, have tried a bunch of things, and we actually feel it as a badge of, of pride that these people who are probably really knowledgeable about skincare, about acne, about their skin and are of course motivated to improve their skin health, are the ones who are picking up our product and finding that it works for them because they’ve tried everything. It hasn’t worked.  and we have, you know, over a probably nearly 1500 reviews of our product at this point on our website.  and they’re really heartwarming. I mean, a lot of people say, hey, this really changed my life because I’ve tried so many things, I’ve tried everything. I’ve even gone to the doctor, but nothing has worked like Fila has, and I’m so grateful to have found it.  I feel like it’s, you know, acne is not just skin deep. It affects your mental health. It affects your sense of self, of who you are and how you think the world sees you. And to help people achieve kind of the results that they want is, is really,  I think, a badge of pride for everyone who works in my company and works on our products.

Surani Fernando: Yeah. And, you know, you mentioned the predominantly female population. I’m curious about how the products work with makeup and combining sort of other sort of elements there. I guess it could. Other variables, I guess.  yeah. Do you have experience there or what the recommendation would be?

Yug Varma: Yeah. I mean, obviously we can’t control every variable in people’s lives and we don’t want to because we want a product that you can use easily, that you don’t have to go out of your way to change everything about your life to accommodate. Yeah, because honestly, that wouldn’t be practical.  and so we,  highly encourage people to use,  our product twice a day for best results morning and evening.  and so we recognize that in the morning, you know, you may want to put makeup and even light makeup on top of that, and that’s totally fine. In that case, we recommend that you adhere to your evening routine. Really?  you know, with a lot of,  high fidelity because the more efficiently you use the product in the evening, you’re, you’re giving your sort of skin 12 hours ish to recover and so on. You know, again, our company has kind of a minimalist ethos,  and we think that the less products you put on your face, the better.  there was a study, actually, that showed that on average, a woman puts on 500 skincare ingredients every day, right? I’m going to go out on a limb and say, you maybe don’t need every single one of those ingredients on your skin, and you think of the burden that your skin is carrying every day. Because a lot of these products live on and by any means. I’m not saying stop using skincare,  stop using,  makeup. My wife wears makeup every day.  but I am saying that,  if you use makeup, that’s fine. Apply filler in the evening for sure.  and, you know, consider not doing like a 15, 20 step skincare routine every day because maybe by reducing some of that, you’re reducing the burden of products on your skin.

Surani Fernando: Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, for a lot of people, it’s just that security thing of just having a like a mask of, of some sort, even though, like it may not really make much of a difference, but, you know, just like evening out a color or something like that.  is that something that you guys like, think about? You know, not obviously doing a makeup range, but, you know, you see some tinted moisturizers and things like that. Is that something that or is like not no synergy there.

Yug Varma: No, I think there’s synergy there has been discussed.  we are very focused on acne right now. And in fact, you know, you’re seeing this. We’ve actually been thinking over the last couple of months of, look, we know that the microbiome plays an important role in skin health, especially in acne. I think that’s been proven,  time and time again by many studies.  we know that this technology works for acne, and we suspect that it also works for things like, you may have low grade inflammation that isn’t full blown acne, but is caused by some of the same underlying causes that causes acne. And so whether it’s redness and inflammation or uneven skin tone or dull skin, I think our technology can help. And so we’re going to be working on,  you know, building out some products and whether that looks like a tinted moisturizer, which has been discussed internally or some other version.  I think there’s definitely something that that will be scientifically supported. And once we know what that is, once we’ve sort of seen that and proven that out for ourselves, then we’ll have really good confidence in building that product out, launching it and then saying, hey, like, these are the exact benefits we’ve been able to see and verify and that, you know, you can take advantage of.

Surani Fernando: Yeah. And, you know, just with the variability of people and the skin, obviously there would be a, you know, an optimal candidate for that needs the amount of phage on, like to balance out their microbiome. But could it go the other way where like someone with enough of that on the on their skin starts using the product and it goes the other way like it’s,  a negative effect on their microbiome.

Yug Varma:  we don’t think so. And so far we haven’t seen any. Right. So just from the way phages work, they’re fascinating because as living organisms, they can multiply, right? And if they get enough food and the right conditions, they will multiply. But the thing is that the only food they can eat is C acnes. And so let’s say you apply the product on your skin all over your skin. But really you have acne here right on your jaw. And what the phases will do on the other parts of your skin where there isn’t an overgrowth or an imbalance of C acnes is they’ll sit there, they’ll look around.  and if they don’t find any C acnes to go into and eat up, then they cannot make more of themselves. And so in a few hours they will completely clear. Right? In the parts where you have acne, where there is an imbalance and an overgrowth of C acnes, the the phages will find the C acnes and kill them and actually grow to a proportional amount of how much of the problem there is. So they’ll grow to a proportional amount that they need to solve the problem. Once the problem is solved, once the C acnes levels are reduced again, there’s nothing to feed on and nothing to eat, and they clear after a few hours.

Yug Varma: So it’s a very interesting it. We’re basically leveraging microbial ecology what happens in nature. And you know, I’m reminded you have this beautiful,  backdrop of of sort of green grass or whatever. Let’s say you go into your lawn, right? And you, you you’ll take a handful of seeds of, you know, grass seeds and scatter them in the kind of bald patches in your lawn if you took two fistfuls instead of one fistful, you wouldn’t, you know, have sleepless nights thinking, oh my God, there’s going to be an overgrowth. The seeds will sprout, you know, in a few weeks or a few months, as much grass as the the soil can support, the water that you’re irrigating with can support and the sun light can support will grow. The other seeds will either not sprout or they will sprout and fall away. And so that is ecology in action. And what we’re leveraging here is microbial ecology. So what I love about this is we don’t have to individualize this to each person and make it more expensive, make it more sort of hoops for our customers to jp through. Everyone can take the product, use it as they normally would, and because of the way it works, they’ll get exactly the right dose on their skin that they need.

Surani Fernando: Okay, yeah, so potency isn’t a question there. It’s just equal across the board. And for people who, you know, don’t have an acne issue but just want to be conscious of their skin microbiome, you know, they get the occasional pimple. I might be talking about myself. It,  can be it’s a good option, you know, just to. As a preventative as well.

Yug Varma: Yes, exactly. And,  you know, one of the use cases for which our product works really well is hormonal acne. Now, our product works for all kinds of acne. Mild, moderate, severe,  hormonal acne, cystic acne. We’ve actually seen some really impressive results with people with severe cystic acne. Okay. Honestly was surprising to me because that acne is kind of deeper in the skin. Yeah, but it seems that the phage are able to access it and do their job.  it works for even chest and back acne. So we have some customers that are, you know, they work out and they say, oh, I sweat, and then I get acne. Can this help? Because the underlying cause of all of these is the same. Our product works for all of them, but for hormonal acne we see really good results because, you know, hormonal acne is periodic and it it,  doesn’t, you know, happen all the time. But still, our customers are faithful users because they know that. And they’ve seen for themselves that balancing your skin microbiome means that when you have that hormonal part of your cycle where acne is most likely to occur because your microbiome is already in balance, you’re not going to get that outbreak.

Surani Fernando: Yeah. Okay.  yeah, that’s really good to know because I was kind of curious about that. The really cystic, you know, nodular, painful acne that everyone needs to get, you know, go on heavy prescription drugs. So you’re seeing activity there, which is which is good encouraging. And do you have like a a success story? Actually I was going to ask, you know, how how long have you been operating? Like how long have your products been on the market and, you know, seeing success?

Yug Varma: Yeah. So,  we’ve been on the market for about three years, almost three years.  and we’ve seen really great,  sort of reception and uptake of our product. We have very loyal customers. Our, our retention rate. And our repeat rate is, is really quite strong. And I think that just reflects on the quality of the product because,  really what we’re trying to do is bring biotechnology into conser health.  we’re not, you know, we’re,  pioneering a new technology which is different from the benzoyl peroxide and salicylic acids and acetic acids and all the other, you know, ingredients that everyone with acne has seen in, you know, myriad products. So we’re not bringing the, eh, same, same product into the market..  because it’s a new technology. Not everyone knows about it. Right. And many of your listeners are probably hearing about phage technology for the first time. So for us, the challenge is how do we get more people to hear about phage technology for the first time and the second and the third time, so that maybe the fourth time they’ll say, oh yeah, I think I know enough about the technology. I’m comfortable with it to make my, you know, decision. Yeah.  and we’re doing that in a nber of ways. But what we have seen is that when we tell people what the technology is, give them a little knowledge about the science, about our clinical trial, about, you know, how it works.  that that converts and that,  convinces people very strongly.

Surani Fernando: Okay, great. And then do you have, like, a one big success story that you sort of flag around or something you want to share? That something was incredible.

Yug Varma: Yeah, we have many. And,  you know, there are some that I’ve been personally kind of involved in because,  as the founder,  and as kind of the scientist. Right. A lot of people ask technical questions or,  like there are parents who say, hey, you know, can I, I have all these questions because it’s for my kid and I don’t want them to go on Accutane or something. I hope this will help.  there’s one here that I wanted to read out. And this is verbatim from the customer themselves.  this is a person. She says,  I have suffered with deep cystic acne for several years.  I have tried so many products to help my acne, including a full round of Accutane with minimal relief. Fila is the only product I have ever used that has helped with my acne. My face feels hydrated and restored after many years of drying it out and using harsh chemicals. I’m very thankful to this company for the work they’re doing. And so, you know, when I’m having a hard day,  sort of going to our review page and reading some of these reviews really lifts me up.

Yug Varma:  and, you know, when I, as a scientist, when I started this company, a lot of people said, wow, you know, who knew about this technology? Said, oh, you know, phage technology, phage therapy is potentially so powerful you could be helping people in hospitals who are in medical comas because of some, you know, horrible bacterial infection, etc., etc. acne seems like such a superficial disease to treat.  I certainly don’t think of it that way. I think we’re helping, you know, tens of thousands, hopefully hundreds of thousands and millions of customers really soon. And they have a real pain point. I mean, they have something that affects their face that they can’t hide away from, whether it’s fronting up to a mirror every day or when they’re out in public and they feel the world sees them in a certain way. Right? Acne is such a huge mental health component. And so to help people who are struggling and then to hear these kind of life changing results from their own experience,  is, I think, really significant. And I’m really proud of the work that we do.

Surani Fernando: Yeah, definitely. I can imagine that’s something that just keeps you going. You know, when things are going tough and you’re like, I’m not getting we’re not getting anywhere with this and we’ll be working on this for ages, I can. Yeah. It’s some some motivation to keep going.  but you did mention that you were planning to look at some other diseases. Are you able to talk a little bit about that?

Yug Varma: Yeah. We’re really interested in eczema. We’ve we’ve we have a project that is quite advanced.  we’ve done some case studies to show that this works. So the proof of concept works where the if we knock down this bacteria that causes eczema flare ups, then a it has a big effect on the disease. It improves people’s skin. But also we’re seeing that the the so the bacteria that causes eczema flare ups is staph aureus. And we’re seeing that initially staph aureus levels are high. We’re able to knock it down to a very low level. And as a result, we’re seeing a huge improvement in eczema skin. So the next step is to do some clinicals, do some hopefully do some longitudinal testing and say, okay, what if someone is on this for months and months? You know what? What is the effect on the skin?  and then yeah, launch the product. But the stuff works really, really well.  yeah. We started our company many years ago with NIH support, with a grant from the NIH,  doing the medical research and with the help of or with the support of UCSF.  and,  we’re we’re writing a grant to the NIH right now for eczema as well. So I’m really excited about that. I think that that is going to continue to have a big impact on people with skin issues, skin conditions, and especially because eczema.

Yug Varma: A huge portion of eczema affects kids. So kids under the age of 5 or 6, especially kids under two. The the rate of eczema is about 10 to 15%, which is quite high. And the quality of life is incredibly tough because the kid obviously is miserable. They can’t stop scratching, and scratching only induces more skin breakage and more eczema. But the parents have sleepless nights and are desperate. Obviously, you know, I have kids. I can imagine what it’s like. And when they go to the doctor, the doctor says, well, you can either use the steroid cream or you can put your kid in a bleach bath. Both. Both of which sound medieval, right? Yeah. You can’t believe that with our, you know, advanced knowledge of medicine that we can’t do better. Yeah.  and I don’t know about anyone else, but I would think very deep and hard about putting steroid products on my kids skin. Right. So I feel like eczema is similar to acne, where you don’t have really great choices if they come up, come with a lot of trade offs that a lot of people aren’t comfortable with making, and I think we can have a big impact there.

Surani Fernando: Yeah, definitely. And just to,  finish us off, you know, a lot of our listeners are sort of curious and what they can do just generally to improve, you know, their microbiome related to skin. What sort of things would you tell them? You know, maybe some advice, things that they can be thinking about? Not necessarily. I’m sure they’ll look into to the products and, you know, buying the products, but just, you know, just daily lifestyle habits that they can just be more mindful of.

Yug Varma: Yeah, I mean, I a couple of pieces of advice come to mind. The first is don’t dry out your skin. Right.  especially based on what we talked about, right. That the seb the natural oil that you buy your skin produces is the nber one favorite food for this bacteria, C acnes.  but there’s a a good reason why your face produces oil, which is to seal in the moisture, prevent water loss, and hydrate the skin layers and prevent fine lines and wrinkles. So if you dry out your skin, maybe not now, but, you know, in a few years you’re going to see the negative effects of that where you feel like your skin is rougher. It’s it’s aging more poorly than people your age. And the other thing I would say is stay hydrated. I think skin hydration and just general body hydration, it has a huge effect on your skin.  and of course, use use Fila because, you know, we’ve shown that increasing the microbiome diversity on your skin really helps. Phages are a great way to do that. And,  you know, as we’re investigating the long term effect, long term effects on it, we know that people with healthy skin have this phage naturally on their skin. And so,  this product is literally, you know, closely associated with skin health.

Surani Fernando: Okay, great. Well, thanks for joining the podcast. This has been really insightful and educational. You know, for me as well,  just hearing your unique perspective on microbiome research and I wish you all the best with everything that you’re, you’ve got in front of you. And to everyone listening, please go and visit the phyla website to get more info on the work that they’re doing and their product range. Also, remember to subscribe to the podcast for more episodes on holistic health habits. But I’m Serena Fernando and we’ll see you on the next episode for more conversations on Nourishing the Mind, body, and soul. Take care. Okay, well. We’re done. Super done. All right, well, I’ll let you get back. I guess it’s the beginning of your day, right? It’s the end of mine. So it is in Madrid.

Yug Varma: Yeah. Oh, you’re in Madrid. All right.  thank you so much for staying on. I know it’s it’s, you know, probably past quitting time, but, .

Surani Fernando: No. That’s fine. I work on us Mondays to. Yeah. Early days of the week. I work on us time, so that’s fine. All right. No problem at all.

Yug Varma: So you’re from the UK?

Surani Fernando: I’m actually from Australia, but I did live in the UK for like eight years. Enough of time to get a passport, a British passport. And then I lived in the US as well for four years in New York.  and now I’m in Madrid, so it’s awesome.

Yug Varma: And so what, what,  got you into the podcast game and,  and into holistic health habits?

Surani Fernando: So,  I’m actually a journalist that, like, I’ve covered the pharmaceutical industry for a long time. So this was actually, you know, even though it’s not so much nutrition like, you know, the traditional nutrition it was. Yeah. Interesting to see this biotech angle.  but I have yeah. Covered the that industry for a while.  I’ve got into a little bit of podcasting in 2020 doing something on the Covid vaccines all like really clinical trials. And that’s why I was kind of asking you about the, the drug trials.  and yeah, I’ve done another I also have another podcast which you might be interested in listening to. It’s called Raising Biotech. It’s about,  companies like biotech companies raising funds and developing impressive breakthroughs. So. Oh very cool. That’s something.  it’s a narrative podcast. And then this came up. It was just something, you know, just being in the industry, covering the industry for a while, you know, it’s sort of turned me to the other end of it, of thinking like so much of what the industry is trying to correct, you know, instead of like, symptom management is often like, we’ve got to look a little bit deeper on what we’re doing to our bodies, what we’re eating, what how we’re behaving, you know, just how we’re living our lives. So I become a little bit more interested in in natural remedies and nutrition, all that thing. Not saying that, you know, pharma has a has a role. It has a power. It’s a powerful tool. But I think it’s both that we need to, you know, because doctors are very clear, you know, that when they go to medical school, they don’t learn a whole lot about nutrition. Right? And,  so that I find quite fascinating and want to start speaking, to start doing a little bit more in this type, this sort of area, to have a more holistic health,  sort of perspective. So.

Yug Varma: Yeah. No, that’s very cool. And,  yeah, I just got back from a derm conference. I’m going to another one next week.  and so I meet a lot of dermatologists,  and everyone from, like,  an MD to a PA to a registered nurse, etc., because so many of them in dermatology see acne patients and, you know, even prescribe. And they all, I think are like, yeah, especially when it comes to the microbiome. They realize that beyond the, you know, just like the the things they write down on their notepad and beyond what they know from med school that there’s a wider world out there of phenomenology that they haven’t tapped into and that they’re eager to learn about. Right. Oh, how the microbiome affect your skin health. How does gut health affect your skin health? How do you know all of these different factors? Maybe not be the the the sole solution, but but augment and support what they’re kind of prescribing day to day. So it’s yeah it’s an interesting time. Obviously we all know I think at this point that food is medicine, right. Or that conversely, food can be poison.

Yug Varma: And at this conference, actually, someone was saying, you know, our,  our food habits haven’t really changed very much, right? In the sense that in the 50s and 60s, where obesity wasn’t as big as it is now, from then to now, you know what’s really changed? More than the fact that people’s habits and what they conse has completely changed is what’s available to them. Right? The rise of a lot of ultra processed foods and the ubiquity of them. Right, where everything is just available at your fingertips and it’s cheaper and it’s just more whatever. Eat a digestible or sort of,  easier to eat. Yeah. Has seduced us into things. So you can’t say, oh, people have people are lazier and have worse habits. It’s just what’s available to them has right in in quality. Yeah. And ultra processed foods have flooded and pushed away so many of the healthier food options where if you just look at a supermarket and the nber of aisles that are devoted to that versus, you know, the the kind of dairy, whole foods, grains kind of aisles on the. Yeah.

Surani Fernando: No. Yeah, it’s a massive disservice. I think when I think about it more and more of like, you know, the general population are not educated in how to read labels. They’re getting better now because there’s more, you know, awareness of it. But, you know, like there’s a lot of things that for the purpose of conserism, capitalism, there’s a lot of things that are branded health foods that are not health foods. And so people have good intentions to want to be healthy. You know, I was just talking to a friend the other day, and she was telling me,  about, like, when she was having these protein shakes and, like, she was getting weight. And I’m like, well, you know, a lot of these protein shakes, they have protein, but they have a lot of other things in them. They’ve got chemicals in them, but they’ve also got a lot of sugar in them. So they’ve got calories. So that’s why you’re gaining weight. So  so and these sorts of things are just like, not,  you know, it’s like, you know, and the classic 80s of the low fat and, you know, all this stuff. I think it’s just it makes me a little bit angry when I think about things like that of, you know, trying to trick people have good intentions because when you go for a low fat, you’ve got a good intention.

Surani Fernando: But it’s just like, you know, the, the trickery of,  you know, trying to just earn money, really. So,  I think,  personally, for me, it’s taking back control of that, like educating myself a lot more, wanting to understand more about, like, you know, just simple things like inflammatory foods, you know, as we were talking about the foods related to our skin or just energy levels and things like that.  it’s been quite insightful,  particularly as a woman, you know, just educating myself amongst some of these experts..  understanding what foods women should be eating according to our cycle, has also been a massive like game changer for me because I had no clue, like most of my life about, you know,  you know, foods that would trigger more pain in, in when you’re. Yeah, on your cycle or things that you can do more, you can have better energy levels and can go without things. You know, we could do longer fast or things like that, but that’s going into a whole thing. But anyway, that’s sort of my interest there. So  and it’s been yeah, quite fulfilling to, to learn about this side as well.

Yug Varma: Yeah. That’s awesome. My wife, you know, has been paying more attention to that as well in terms of,  you know, what should I eat at what point in my cycle? And she’s a scientist as well. And she sort of realized after kind of diving in and, you know, rooting around, doing research, she was like, oh, wow. You know, the vast majority of what we know about the han body is what we know about the male body, right? The enrollment historically the the research on everything from drugs to diet to all of that has skewed so heavily male that and males don’t have a, you know, hormonal cycle. Right, right. Huge difference. And everything from the foods you eat to like how much exercise you should do or whether you should fast or not at certain points in your cycle, has huge impacts on what the outcome is. Or,  how hard it is to do, for example, or what the benefits might be. So,  yeah, I mean, it’s just fascinating. And hopefully, you know, we’re understanding that we know less about the the female body than, for example, my wife is sort of going through perimenopause and she’s like, no one tells you about that. No one tells you about the different side effects that they could be associated with perimenopause. What to do about it? A lot of doctors are just kind of they shrug and they’re like, good luck. Yeah, yeah. You know, it’s so just I don’t know, it’s it’s discouraging.  because, yeah, 50% of the population, you know, you’re not talking about a small sliver where you’re like, oh, yeah, we don’t care about you because there’s not enough of you. Yeah. .

Surani Fernando: Yeah. Yeah. And I think. Yeah. Understanding that when I, when I thought when, you know, I follow this one woman who is very much about like,  her practice is more like tapping into long, some longer, fast at certain periods. But as a woman, you have to be quite careful when you do that, like because of your cycle and not like when your hormones are like high and when they’re low, like this is you should be eating certain foods to nourish them. And then as progesterone is rising, you know, you want to lean into more, you know, good carbs because, like, you want to feed it. You don’t want to starve your, you know, so and like it’s just amazing because men. Yeah. Just with the testosterone hormone it’s they can just have be much more relaxed about that sort of when they’re doing certain things because they don’t they there isn’t a cycle. So I was like, oh my gosh, you know, how did I go? You know, more than two decades of having a cycle and not know any of this. And so as I started to adopt some of these principles, very easy to adopt,  I started to like, be more regular and, and not have pain, pain during my cycle. It was like incredible. The, the the the change diet can do, you know, to to these sorts of things. So  that’s incredible.

Yug Varma: And, you know, it’s funny because,  I was at a dinner once and I was talking about because I’m from India and, you know, there’s all these kind of just cooking with certain foods, right? Or at certain times of the year or whatever, you’re like, oh, if you’re going to cook with cauliflower, you add ginger because cauliflower produces gas in the bowels. And then ginger kind of counteracts that. And everyone was kind of just listening to me rapt. And I was like, oh, I thought that was just general knowledge. But yeah, there’s a lot of like sort of community knowledge that, that you hear or that you just learn culturally in many cultures where you know, like, you know, all throughout, you know, sort of food cultures, there’s there’s these kind of pairs of foods or things that you don’t eat together and you know, you’re like, oh, I wonder why. But they have certain effects on your body when, when in done in unison. And,  I feel like we know all of this. We forget some of it, but some of these traditional food habits and food rituals are also really important. Yeah, they make sense.

Surani Fernando: Yeah. I mean, I my background is,  my family are from Sri Lanka. I was born in Australia, but Sri Lankan heritage and you know, have when I think about all the things we used to eat or drink as remedies.  you know, I was talking to about this with,  one of the guests who was in, in Ayurveda, Ayurvedic medicine. Well, Ayurvedic food, sort of,  restaurant. And. And I said, you know, like my m always used to give us this drink from Sri Lanka. It’s called kottamala. It’s, it’s coriander seeds boiled and you can add ginger and garlic. And it was just like not palatable. Like we didn’t never, never loved it and always used to like, roll our eyes, you know, why are we drinking this. It doesn’t do anything, but it’s. Yeah, it’s incredible because the complete 180.  that’s That’s the first thing that I do if I have any sign of, you know, low immune system. I have like a I live in Spain and they have a garlic soup which is just basically garlic boiled,  and yeah, just just a plain soup, very garlicky. That does wonders as well. It’s all these like natural remedies that I feel really help when you just just to boost your immune system before it gets really bad. And,  so I swear by all of this stuff now, and I haven’t really been super, super sick,  in a in a while.  obviously, you know, it’s probably going to happen, but it’s,  those moments where in the past I felt like one night I feel bad, and the next morning I’ll wake up worse. I’ve gotten it at that night, and then the next morning I feel good. So yeah, anecdotal evidence, but you know, it’s been working, so I’ll continue. I’ll stick with that. Yeah, yeah. And if it.

Yug Varma: Works consistently enough, it’s it’s at least for you. It’s not anecdotal anymore. Right. Yeah. Where you practice it and you know it works.

Surani Fernando: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah I’m enjoying, you know, speaking to people like you and learning more about, you know, these sorts of non I guess I want to say it’s more Western. The Western influences of diet and then medicine have become a little have maybe messed things up a little bit. But I think at the end of the day it’s all about money. It’s all about, you know, making a buck.

Yug Varma: Yeah, exactly. And I mean, I’m in the skincare industry, right? Because I’m a scientist. I find myself in skincare and acne care and wow, I mean, a lot of the brands are just, you know, like, oh, we’ll come out with five products and then ten products and we’ll try to sell them all to each and every person. And it’s very apparent that, you know, you don’t need them. You maybe need 1 or 2 of those things. But yeah, you’re just being fed on this treadmill by this and then get that. If you don’t, you know, if you don’t want your skin to break out or whatever.

Surani Fernando: Yeah. Yeah.

Yug Varma: So we’re you know, we’re not about that. I’m like, here, this is the science. This is how it works. It’s not just hand waving and magic. It’s it’s it’s real science. Yeah.

Surani Fernando: All right. Great. Well, I will say that. So we did the outro, and I think some of the conversation we had afterwards would be good to add in. But are you are you okay with that. Like selecting some, some of that stuff to put into the episode. Or do you want to just keep it by like filler stuff?

Yug Varma: Yeah, I’m fine with putting some of the this back in. I didn’t realize we were still rolling, but that’s great.

Surani Fernando: Yeah, it’s it’s good. And, you know, I have to talk with the team. How the. Because we haven’t, like, officially launched yet.  but they’re working on the first episodes, so I’ll just check with the team. I think they want to keep it, like 45 minutes. I think this has been a little bit longer, but we could see. Yeah, it was a good discussion and it’s related to the nutrition. And I think it’s always good to also have like we speak to nutritionists but also, you know, like sort of branches of the holistic health.  you know arena. But everything is related, you know, so everything sort of is interconnected. So.

Surani Fernando: All right

Surani Fernando: Great.

Surani Fernando: Well thank you.  and yeah.

Surani Fernando: We’ll let you know. The team will let you know, like, when it comes out, when to,  like, promote it and things like that. And then if, if you want to I believe, like, if you have any suggestions for edits and things like that, then they can do that.

Yug Varma: Yeah. No. It’s fine. I love having free-flowing conversations. And I trust in your final edit.  but yeah, it was great meeting you.  yeah. And I really enjoyed this conversation.

Surani Fernando: yeah yeah Likewise. hope to meet you in person one day. In the future 

Yug Varma: Yes. Enjoy. Madrid. Stay cool.

Surani Fernando: yes Well, today it’s fine. It’s raining, but it’s going to be. It’s the start of summer. So it will be. It will be a hot one probably in the next few months.

Yug Varma: yeah It will.

Surani Fernando: Yeah.

Yug Varma: All right.

Surani Fernando: All right. Take care. Bye bye.