Episode Overview
Episode Topic
In this episode of Holistic Health Habits, host Surani Fernando sits down with Joanna Tandberg, the founder and CEO of ZB Botanicals and an Ayurveda wellness counselor. Joanna shares her personal journey of overcoming chronic illness, including Corn’s disease, and how it led her to discover the healing power of Ayurveda, yoga, and eventually CBD-based therapies. From her battle with illness to the launch of her wellness company, Joanna reveals how ancient practices like Ayurveda can be integrated with modern health trends to create sustainable healing methods. The discussion offers deep insights into Ayurveda’s practical applications in daily life, holistic health, and wellness innovations.
This episode is perfect for anyone interested in Ayurveda, CBD, and how natural, mindful living can complement modern medicine. Joanna’s experience serves as an inspirational guide for listeners seeking balance and wellness through integrative practices.
Lessons You’ll Learn
Listeners will gain a comprehensive understanding of Ayurveda and how it can transform one’s health and lifestyle. Joanna explains the core principles of Ayurveda, including its roots in the Vedic period, and how mindfulness plays a vital role in achieving balance. She also discusses how Ayurvedic practices can be adapted to different climates and environments, making it accessible to everyone.
Joanna’s insights into CBD and its healing properties, particularly for inflammation and chronic pain, will provide listeners with practical knowledge about integrating these natural remedies into their daily lives. The episode also offers valuable lessons on the importance of sleep, stress management, and the role of ancient wellness practices in supporting long-term health.
About Our Guest
Joanna Tandberg is the founder and CEO of ZV Botanicals, an Ayurveda wellness counselor, and a certified cannabis clinician. After being diagnosed with Corn’s disease at a young age, Joanna endured years of pharmaceutical treatments that left her body and mind in turmoil. Her quest for alternative healing led her to yoga and Ayurveda, and eventually to the discovery of CBD as a therapeutic remedy for herself and her family. Joanna’s transformative health journey became the foundation for ZVBotanicals, where she merges ancient Ayurvedic wisdom with the healing power of cannabis to provide holistic health solutions.
Joanna is passionate about regenerative health and advocates for sustainable, nature-based wellness practices. She continues to educate and counsel individuals on the benefits of Ayurveda and CBD for optimal health and well-being.
Topics Covered
In this episode, Joanna Tandberg shares her personal health journey, including her experience with Corn’s disease and how traditional medicine led her to seek alternative solutions. The conversation covers the foundational principles of Ayurveda, including its 5,000-year-old history and practical applications for modern wellness. Joanna explains the intersection of Ayurveda with CBD, discussing how both can work together to address chronic pain, inflammation, and other health issues.
Listeners will also learn about the challenges of operating in the CBD industry, particularly the regulations and limitations that small businesses face. Joanna provides insights into how her company, ZV Botanicals, is bridging the gap between ancient and modern medicine through sustainable, ethical wellness products.
Our Guest: Joanna Tandberg
Joanna Tandberg is the founder and CEO of ZV Botanicals, a company dedicated to promoting holistic wellness through Ayurveda and cannabis-based therapies. Joanna’s journey into the wellness space began with her own health struggles, having been diagnosed with Crohn’s disease at a young age. After enduring years of conventional treatments, including immunosuppressants and steroid therapies, she found herself searching for alternative ways to heal. This quest led her to the ancient practice of Ayurveda and its sister science, yoga, where she discovered the transformative power of natural remedies. Over time, she combined these practices with her expertise in CBD, which became a cornerstone of her holistic approach to healing.
Joanna is a certified cannabis clinician and an Ayurveda wellness counselor, blending modern and ancient therapies in innovative ways. Her approach stems from personal experience, having not only used these therapies for herself but also for her family, including her father, who battled stage 4 melanoma. By integrating Ayurvedic principles with the therapeutic benefits of CBD, Joanna has helped numerous individuals navigate chronic illnesses, inflammation, and stress through natural solutions. Her work with ZV Botanicals focuses on sustainable, ethically sourced products that bring together the best of Eastern wisdom and modern wellness trends.
With over a decade of experience in the wellness industry, Joanna is a passionate advocate for regenerative health practices. She continues to educate and empower others through her workshops, private consultations, and speaking engagements. Her mission is to make Ayurvedic and CBD-based treatments accessible to a broader audience, providing tools for individuals to achieve long-term health and balance in their lives. Joanna’s commitment to integrative wellness solutions positions her as a leader in the evolving space of natural health and holistic medicine.
TRANSCRIPT
Surani Fernando: Welcome to another episode of Holistic Health Habits, the podcast where we explore the latest trends, innovations and insights into holistic health and wellness. I’m your host, Surani Fernando. Today we have the pleasure of speaking with Joanna Tandberg, the founder and CEO of Z-Wave botanicals, or XV botanicals, and she’s an Ayurveda wellness counselor. Joe and her dedicated team are on a mission to guide individuals towards healthier, more balanced lives through transformative practices of Ayurveda and mindfulness. Joanna, welcome to the show.
Joanna Tandberg: Thank you so much. I’m happy to be here.
Surani Fernando: Great. So just to kick us off, you know, can you tell me a little bit about your background, your journey that led you to to the wellness space and what inspired you to to found ZV botanicals or ZV?
Joanna Tandberg: No, both are perfect. Sure. That’s a that’s a great question. I was not raised in this this world of Ayurveda or yoga for that matter. I was raised in a very kind of structured, conservative United States Southern Catholic military background growing up in and kind of all that encompassed what your day to day life would be like with a lot of trust in, you know, doctors and, and the, you know, those ahead of you or in front of you as far as seniority and usually men, , telling us what to do and how to do it and follow the rules. And including my dad, who was an Army colonel. And when I was a teenager, I was diagnosed with Crn’s disease. I was a sophomore in college, so it was just before I turned 20. And I, you know, looking back, I probably had had quite a long journey of the of illness up to that point, but kept most of it to myself. You know, being a young girl, supposed to look pretty and, you know, and look, dress nice and go to church on Sundays and had a miserable stomach all the time and just kind of dealt with it and had really difficult times with my, my monthly cycle. , I had horrific cramps. Just my life was not easy when it came to like physical moving forward physically, like just getting on with life.
Joanna Tandberg: After I was diagnosed with Crn’s disease in college, I was pretty much left on my own to follow doctor’s orders, and that was to take a large amount of pharmaceutical drugs. I was on steroids, prednisone off and on at high doses for eventually about 13 years. So that was a that was a big problem with me. , both with the mental state, my inability to sleep. You know, I went through that swelling period when I was in like my early 20s, which was very embarrassing. Hair loss, , mood swings, a lot of issues, you know, relating to the hormones. But there’s steroid therapy. Yeah. I was also put on different iune suppressant drugs, which is pretty coon, at least back in the 90s. You know, a lot of the way that Crn’s disease was looked at. Well, before I was diagnosed, women specifically who were diagnosed with Crn’s disease or had had illnesses that related to the digestion, that were eventually diagnosed with Crn’s, were often told it was in their head. And now I see that from more of a natural perspective. Yeah, it is the way we process stress. But there was also a genetic component to this. My father had Crn’s. My grandfather had diverticulitis. It runs in my family having gastroenterological diseases. So I continued down that path into my 30s, really, of just taking the drugs, taking new drugs, being one of the first people in the United States to go on an IV therapy back in, gosh, 1998.
Joanna Tandberg: I think it was after the birth of my first child because at this point I was kind of teetering on if I’m going to stay alive or not, because I had a really hard time absorbing nutrients and very difficult time, , just functioning. My daughter, when she was born, , you know, breastfeeding was difficult because of the fact that I couldn’t absorb nutrients while I wasn’t easily able to pass on those nutrients to my to my baby. So mentally, I went through a lot because I felt like I wasn’t a good mother. , I had to supplement with formula, which was, you know, against the way I wanted to raise my, my baby. And but I got through it. And then I got pregnant with my second child, , which was an unexpected pregnancy. A joy, but unexpected because of my health was so poor, we didn’t think I could handle a second pregnancy with the high risk group that I was in. , by the time my son was born, I was gravely ill. And as a consequence of both the drugs I was taking prescribed to me. And I think just the way the pregnancy, , kind of just really racked my body. , my son was born with health issues himself, and they started from a from an infant.
Joanna Tandberg: So he had severe eczema, he had advanced asthma, and he was allergic to everything. So that took my life a whole nother level, because now it’s not just myself I’m trying to take care of. Now I’m trying to take care of a baby and a toddler. And I was single quite a bit. I was married to a pilot at the time and did a lot of solo parenting. So it was it was a rough it was a rough time in my life and that opened up my world. And so, you know, more on point, to answer your question, I started just practicing yoga. You know, my first my first memories of really getting on a yoga mat were with my first child, my baby, who’s now 26, and like doing a downward dog, not even knowing what I was doing with her underneath me, and then like, laying on my back and picking her up and and learning ways to move my body and breathe. That didn’t hurt. And I took classes, , eventually fell in love with yoga, and yoga is a sister science of Ayurveda, which which translated as is wisdom or the the knowledge of life or the science of living. And when I understood that the sister sciences of Ayurveda and yoga and the potential for healing, I dove in. And that was the beginning of of where I am now.
Surani Fernando: Okay. And for just our, our listeners, you know, who might have heard of Ayurveda but don’t aren’t really familiar with, you know, what it is, its origins, you know, and also things like traditional Chinese medicine. Are you able to just, you know, briefly describe what these ancient practices are, where they come from, how they’ve sort of intersected now and entered the modern sort of wellness space?
Joanna Tandberg: Yes, absolutely. So the practice of Ayurveda as a medicine dates back to at least 5000 years. And this is during what was called the Vedic period of India. And the earliest references to Ayurveda and its sister science yoga appear in texts, scholarly texts that were called the Vedas and Vedic texts, and those texts are broken into different, different voles, different books. And within those are basically all the prescriptions and not the way we look at prescriptions now, but description prescription on how to live in a way which which honors nature within ourselves and around us. And so first they were taught and shared orally, and before there was even a text, it was handed down. Within every family, you know, a member, typically a boy would be given this, these, these, these texts were done in chants. They were done in, in, in like a song where they could learn and understand how the rhythms of the body are in conversation with and in a dance with the same natures around us, the elements of space and air, fire, water and earth elements and Chinese medicine is very similar. They have some different words, and it’s more culturally appropriated to where it’s from. But Ayurveda, there’s a little bit of competition, of which came first Ayurveda or Chinese medicine. And they’re very they’re very similar. The understanding historically is kind of the origin was from southern India and the Kerala region. And then as people migrated around the world, different different medical programs, sciences and philosophies were birthed according to those cultures. So in Chinese medicine, we’re going to have more of a Chinese understanding and culture. Tibetan medicine is another way. Greek medicine. And they just use the plants, the foods, , you know, the song, the dance, the colors, whatever was in that counity and that that culture became more of of that medicines. But we really find the origin to come from India.
Surani Fernando: Okay. And medicines that come from Ayurveda. Do the resources, are they specifically connected with the region of, of Kerala, like, you know, or is it, you know, can you find the products everywhere?
Joanna Tandberg: Both. , originally, like if we look through the ancient texts and the and the original, , recipes to many of these beautiful formulas that have been used both, you know, internally and topically. They were all original from that area. However, it’s based on the properties of the plants. So if we have a plant that you know, that we use in a formula that comes from southern India and that only comes from southern India, that does not mean that we can’t replicate those same characteristics from other plants in other regions. And currently today’s present modern world, where especially after Covid, we’ve really as a as a , as a profession in Ayurveda, we are taking it very seriously. How to create an Ayurvedic counity. No matter where you live in the world, what foods you have. And I’m in the Pacific Northwest of the United States. You know, it’s it’s it’s cooler, it’s damper. It’s very, very different than, than southern India. So there’s it’s not possible to grow the same plants here. However, we can grow plants that have similar similar medical value and then use them to substitute, which is the regenerative kind of future way of spreading Ayurveda.
Surani Fernando: Yeah, I mean, I’m.
Surani Fernando: A little bit familiar with it. My, you know, roots are from Sri Lanka. I was I was born and bred in Australia, but you know family from Sri Lanka and you know, the the movement is quite strong there as well. It’s very close to Kerala. So I’m curious as to like you know, that region also has, you know, everything that comes from the original, you know, practice of are you there then?
Joanna Tandberg: Well, so many of the herbs are unfortunately going into a place of hard to find, , or they, they’re going extinct. And so some of our, you know, when I with the formulas I was creating, I had to make some substitutions within the first couple of years. For example, Jatamansi, which was one of the plants I used for, for, , to help with anxiety and one of my calming formulas called bliss. , within a couple of years, I learned from from one of the doctors I studied with, who helps with my formulations that this is becoming harder to find, and and companies that make Ayurvedic products when they truly care about the earth and they truly care for regenerative processes, they will stop either selling that something with that herb, or they and they will find a substitute, or they will hold until there has been time for the plant to kind of go through its next level of healing. , when you have too much of of anything taken because of the plethora of, you know, pharmaceutical companies and herb companies around the country that may not have these practices in place, suddenly you might find, you know, what you need is no longer available. So taking time to let fields recover, to let trees grow, you know, if a tree is, is being processed for for its sap, for instance, and you come in and you just start scraping the entire tree all at once, you’re going to kill the tree, you’re going to kill the grove. And so practices need to be looked at, you know, one side of the tree at a certain time of year, and then waiting maybe two years before the next harvest and things of that nature. So there’s a lot to consider. And then looking at what can you do locally. Yeah.
Surani Fernando: Okay. And so yeah, you had that, you know, very roller coaster journey for quite a long a big chunk of your life. And then you dove into yoga and then you went deeper into Ayurveda. So when did you actually start using botanicals.
Joanna Tandberg: I actually started like formally in 2018. , back in the early, I would say 2010 to 12, I started learning more and more about cannabis as medicine. I was living on the West Coast. I grew up on the East Coast, so moving from the southeast to Pacific Northwest, Washington state. And then I was living in California for a bit, going through my studies and then back to Washington State. I was kind of on the forefront, or it was in the periphery, but this part of the country was on the forefront of of normalizing and legalizing marijuana and and switching the terminology from, you know, kind of these words that were meant to have more of a detrimental meaning to the actual scientific versions and understanding of the plant medicine and cannabis. So I started exploring that because one of the one of the ailments or issues that was being approved for a medical marijuana card in California when I was living there, was Crn’s disease. And I was like, really? And, you know, I like many people especially, I grew up in the 80s and 90s a little bit in the 70s, you know, we never thought about, first of all, we didn’t call it cannabis.
Joanna Tandberg: We didn’t think of it in the form of an oil or a tincture or a tea. It was something that you kind of smoked or went to a concert, you know, it was just it was done in a recreational and, and, and, you know, illegal way. And even though everybody seemed to have some experience with it. So I have been wanting to understand that. And, and as I started finding actual nurses and doctors and associations and nonprofits, and different events such as national conventions and conferences, where all of these different scientists and medical personnel were coming together plus plus patients saying, this is my experience. It blew my mind. It changed everything for me because I then saw another tool that I could combine with Ayurveda. I thought as I was learning Ayurveda, like, why couldn’t we study all this together? And that became something I did at home. Like I would be mixing, I could make my own tincture. I lived in a place where it was growing in people’s yards, and I had friends that grew cannabis and I had herbs from Ayurveda. And so I thought, huh, what if I put these together and make a skin cream for my son who has severe eczema, or my brother who has severe eczema? Also? , what if I make a tincture for myself to try to stop these cramps? And then my dad was diagnosed with stage four metastatic melanoma, and he the melanoma had spread to his lymph nodes, his adrenal glands, his lungs, and his liver, with possibly a spot in his stomach.
Joanna Tandberg: And that took everything to a much bigger level, because now I was determined to really dive in and save my dad, because I wasn’t ready to let go of my dad. He was only in his 60s at the time, and that kind of spurred what became ZV botanicals. Although my company and the products I made with ZV were not specifically the same ones of what I did for some of my private clients, those were, you know, some of what I did for my clients was not able I didn’t have the kind of finances to start a company that would allow me to do the freedoms that I wanted to do. So I had to find a way to, you know, meet people where they’re at and stay within the legal law, the legal limits of what I could do with an online business.
Surani Fernando: Okay, so.
Surani Fernando: ZV.
Surani Fernando: Buy botanicals is more like Ayurveda 2.0. Like, I guess cannabis doesn’t exist in the Ayurveda realm.
Surani Fernando: But.
Surani Fernando: You’re.
Surani Fernando: Sort of.
Surani Fernando: Bridging the two together and bringing CBD to. And mixing it with Ayurveda principles?
Joanna Tandberg: Yes and no. So, you know, in modern world, you know, going back ten years, this cannabis de cannabis and Ayurveda meet together. No. If you look at ancient texts of Ayurveda that weren’t necessarily publicly taught to us, yes, there was there was talk there. They used them more in teas and in milk drinks called bhang, , like like a chai drink. They would also pulverize the roots and use the roots in ways that we should be using now. But they typically go into a compost pile. So there were different uses for cannabis, but it was, you know, one of my kind of my creative ideas that I would present to some of the doctors that were my professors, and they weren’t real thrilled. I was not, , they weren’t bragging about me. Let’s just say that. So however, after consistently like sharing my stories of of my family and my dad, , his story is phenomenal. And then clients that I started, you know, well, let me go back. I, I went to back to school. I became certified as a cannabis clinician through multiple programs. I really dove in to understand the science, not just like have this wishful thinking, but that wouldn’t it be great if. But no, I actually following an understanding and making products, formulating according to what we know to be true. , and cannabis is studied more than 95% of approved FDA pharmacy grade drugs, and most people don’t realize that they think it’s an unknown, but it is one of the most studied plants on the planet. So when I started putting these ideas together, it was really because I was trying to create something for people that didn’t want to take too many extra supplements, and it was hard enough to incorporate one new thing in their life. So, for instance, to get my dad to take an herb plus a tincture probably going to be hard to do. So what if I combine the herbs and the CBD tincture into one bottle, and then maybe there’s a better chance. And so it was really. Yeah.
Surani Fernando: I didn’t know.
Surani Fernando: What a tincture is.
Joanna Tandberg: So you’re not the only one. You’re not the only one. And actually I used the word tincture somewhat loosely because there’s different, you know, I could get into like the, the backgrounds of, of our language and it’s confusing, but a tincture is, is something that is an herb that has been infused in a liquid. In this case, it’s an oil base so that you have that nice omega 39369 ratio oil, fat oil to hold the, the, the herb encapsulated inside that. And then you put it underneath your tongue. And so it comes in a I don’t have one in front of me, but it comes in like a one ounce or a two ounce brown glass bottle. Right. And , so, you know, some people will call it an infusion I used. I went back and forth on what to call it, but that’s what it would be for. So I was not making pills or capsules or tablets. I was putting them in infused oil because of in my training. The absorbability of cannabis is best when mixed with a fat soluble oil such as olive oil or hemp oil or coconut oil.
Surani Fernando: Okay, okay.
Joanna Tandberg: So I get asked that a lot. Yeah.
Surani Fernando: And so the nice thing is that.
Joanna Tandberg: No, it’s okay. And the nice thing is about using an oil like that is you can also put it on your skin. And so you know, it’s absorbed. So it sublingually so it goes right into your bloodstream versus and there’s nothing wrong with taking cannabis as something you eat or drink, for instance, but it just metabolizes very differently. It goes through the digestive process versus right to your blood. And when it goes through the digestive process, it has to go through a different form of metabolizing in the liver, which can also make it have the user experience it much stronger than they would have if it just went into their bloodstream, which sounds opposite of how it would be true. You’d think that in the blood, maybe you wouldn’t feel it as strongly, but in the digestive system it would be less so. But it’s the opposite.
Surani Fernando: Okay.
Surani Fernando: And so you were developing these products and you had your dad in mind with one of them.
Joanna Tandberg: I did. And and he actually, , he was taking something that had high levels of THC, because when you work with THC levels at a, at a higher ratio than CBD, there’s these are two different cannabinoids out of a couple hundred that are found within the plant of cannabis in the flower or the bud. Yeah. And the THC, when it’s heated, it’s actually an acid molecule. When you heat it to a certain temperature for a certain amount of time, that acid molecule drops. It becomes a more healing agent for many things, not for everything, but it also increases that psychoactivity that one might feel like that kind of higher, just different feeling that you might feel. Cbd cannabidiol does not have that psychoactive experience. And what it does, it actually synergizes and balances that THC. So when someone ingests something that’s high THC and low to no CBD, they might get too much of it. They feel what’s called like, green sick, like, you know, vertigo and nausea. And they lose their balance and they feel miserable. They can’t die from it. No one has ever died from an overdose of cannabis, ever.
Joanna Tandberg: But they can feel pretty lousy. And and the CBD helps to negate that and balance it out. And so it also affects the body differently when you have both those components. So my products were very low in THC , because that was the government that is the government guideline. In order for me to like ship to 50 states and to sell over state lines. , if when working with my father, like within the state of Washington, I was able to provide him with very high levels of THC, which is a much stronger, , tor killer, if you will, to help go directly to, to the cancer itself. So not only were we looking for palliative care to help him have an appetite and help him sleep better, but I was actually going, let’s just go full bore and see if we can shoot this cancer out of his body. And he did not do chemotherapy or radiation because he the melanoma had spread too far. But we were able to completely reverse his cancer. And he has been cancer free since 2016.
Surani Fernando: Wow. So he was not a candidate for chemotherapy. So he was like stage four or something like that. And then yeah, he was.
Joanna Tandberg: Told that he he was diagnosed in June and they did not think he’d make it till the end of the year.
Surani Fernando: Wow. That’s incredible.
Joanna Tandberg: A rough time. Yeah. It was it was pretty incredible. I mean, it blew my mind. I was I’m still kind of pinch me. Did that really happen? And. Yeah. , because it was.
Surani Fernando: Kind of like, I guess you had nothing to lose, really with trying different options. And the risk benefit was really, you know, in favor of just like going for it. And then it just surprised everyone completely everyone.
Joanna Tandberg: And you know, and like I said, my dad, he is not like I wasn’t raised in an ashram or in some hippie farm in California.
Surani Fernando: Which.
Joanna Tandberg: I was very, very different. My dad had never smoked in his life, smoked pot in his life. He’s more of a Scotch and, you know, maybe a glass of wine. Nice Cabernet kind of person. But this was not his medicine. My mom to this day won’t. She’s still not really into it. She’s still kind of questions the whole thing, even though they watched it with our own eyes.
Surani Fernando: Right, right. And what was.
Surani Fernando: The reaction from the medical counity, like the oncology counity seeing or the doctor that said, you know, you’ve got this much time?
Joanna Tandberg: , that’s a whole nother interview in itself. I could talk for days about that one and try not to get my my hairs on my neck raised up. It was not a pleasant experience. , my dad was a patient at Emory University in Atlanta, very prestigious, very renowned, you know, right next to the CDC. And and his doctor was the lead melanoma oncologist. He’d been there forever. He’s a dinosaur of a doctor and, , very nice guy and very, you know, it was I was there for day one. I was, you know, I flew in from the west coast with my brother. We both flew in and said, my God, what’s going to happen now? You know, you just don’t know. And any of your listeners that have been through a diagnosis like this, you know, it is a traatic day that you’ll never forget. And, you know, sitting in that office and hearing everything that was, you know, which was going to happen basically, and how bad the situation was. And I iediately was ready. I mean, I showed up ready with my notes, like, here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to change your diet. We’re going to add these herbs. We’re going to remove these, you know, carcinogenic activities and foods and drinks. And we’re going to start you on this oil therapy. And the oncologist looked at me and chuckled and kind of rolled his eyes and made a few coents about frankincense being weird and not understanding what I’m talking about, and then offered my dad to go out for beers after I leave for the Left Coast, quote unquote.
Joanna Tandberg: And I was like, my God, wow. So then fast forward and a little caveat. So when my dad was diagnosed and we were given one possible drug that was a new drug that was an infusion based drug to help. It was still in the testing stages. And when I read through the five pages of, you know, side effects and studies, everybody died within five years. It took this drug. So although it extended life, it did not necessarily make life wonderful and it did not cure the cancer. The main side effect, two side effects to this drug that were the worst one was it could perforate your colon and put you into a either you could bleed to death, have sepsis, or end up with Crn’s disease. Well, my dad already had Crn’s disease. He’s already been through 35 years of issues with his colon and small intestines. So I was like, dad, you can’t take this drug. And then the second side effect is a rare but becoming more coon disease called. And I never get this right, so I’m probably going to pronounce it wrong. Bithynicus gravis, which is a neurological. It’s like a miscounication or a misfire between the brain and the ability to breathe, swallow and talk. So those are pretty big side effects. And so my dad started instead on the protocol that I recoended, which surprised me beyond what you could imagine.
Joanna Tandberg: My parents are not necessarily into this whole health holistic world. So this is all kind of woo woo to them. But there are, you know, scared. And it was an opportunity for them to try something, try something that wasn’t that did not come with side effects, except, dad, you’re going to sleep a lot. That’s really the worst that’s going to happen to you for now. So after the first Pet scan, after we started the medication, this would have been two and a half months later. So about six, eight, 8 to 10 weeks, it showed that one of the tors has slightly shrunk. Nothing had spread and everything else was stable, which to me and my brother and and those of us that were outside of of mom and dad thought was phenomenal. Like, this is a fast growing, silent killer of cancer, and it has not grown at all. And it’s only either stayed present or gotten smaller and in the lung. However, the oncologist team convinced my dad that he should try this new drug because you just you’ve got to do something. And I was like, but you are doing something, dad. So we did it anyways. And they recoended 29 infusions over the course of like 13 or 16 months or something. So we went in for the first infusion, felt nothing, felt fine, waited three. I think it was three weeks between each one. And you know, I’m kind of biting my knuckles through all this because I just know what could happen.
Joanna Tandberg: And I’ve seen too much of this with other clients because now I’ve got a client base. I’m, you know, I’ve got stories to tell. And on the third infusion, third of the fourth, I can’t remember now. He ended up in the ER with, , he had perforated his colon and he needed a blood transfusion and he was very sick. And my mom called me hysterical. Your dad’s going to die. I’m like, he’s going to be okay. And he was. He did. You know he survived. But that was the end of that. Okay. So he did those. So he did not even 10% of the infusions they recoended or maybe 10%. However, on the last meeting with his oncologist who’s still around. And that’s kind of shocking to me, the oncologist said to my dad, you are still cancer free thanks to our infusion drugs. And I looked at my dad and I said, that’s not true. Yeah. So they don’t acknowledge what I did and not what I did, but what was done right. They don’t acknowledge, which is really maddening to me because it’s a disservice to other patients in oncology wards across this country that there are other options. And my dad now struggles terribly with Licinius Gravis, so he was diagnosed two years ago. He has nearly died three times and has to take weekly infusions and daily pills to swallow and breathe and eat.
Surani Fernando: Okay, okay. It was like they.
Surani Fernando: Got the side effects of that drug, but he did not. The benefits and possibly an emergency. Yeah.
Surani Fernando: Yeah.
Joanna Tandberg: So, you know, and I tell people often when you know, and it’s a it’s a really difficult decision when you are in the throes of a diagnosis of cancer and, and you have different people, all these different specialists coming at you, you know, from, from, you know, an eastern perspective, from a Western perspective, from an integrated it doesn’t matter. It’s a it’s a major decision that you’re making. And what I like to remind people is, you know, when it comes to the pharmaceutical side of things or surgery or, or, , radiation, you can’t turn it off, you can’t take it back. So if you’re sure of your decision, you have to be really sure of your decision. And if you haven’t already tried other things that are less toxic to your system, why not do that first? You know, I never say, don’t do it. I never say to ever to a client, don’t do. It’s not my place to say no to chemo or radiation or surgery or whatever it may be. But what I do try to remind people is it’s a decision you can’t take back. And I’ve seen so many people let fear make their decision for them and then have such deep regrets. I have seen success stories too, but I tend to see more success stories when the holistic perspective is up front. And then it’s it’s integrated with something that might have toxic side effects so that you’re at least preparing your body for the worst case scenario versus giving it the worst case scenario, and then trying to fix it later with the holistic approach.
Surani Fernando: Yeah.
Surani Fernando: And do you find that doctors are receptive in general to, you know, looking beyond just the medicine, like the Western medicine like these days? Because that’s kind of what I actually come from. More of a I studied medical science, I journalist that has actually covered that sector for 15 years. And this is why like, you know, with these podcasts, I am more interested in the other side, like the holistic health side, because I do believe that, you know, that should be a priority. And then the pharmaceutical is an option. It’s it’s a sort of like a tool but should be a last resort because like you said, there are the side effects that come with it. And it is like putting a band aid on something that we need to like, solve from, from the root. And I sort of wonder whether the medical counity have, you know, clicked on that a little bit with, you know, yes, we’ve got these options, but we’ve you’ve also got to look at other things like diet and, you know, the holistic wellness space as well, in conjunction with if we’re going to put you on heavier meds.
Surani Fernando: Agreed.
Joanna Tandberg: I think it depends on where you are, you know, different parts just within our country, in the United States, you can get vastly different opinions depending if you’re in the Deep South versus like somewhere up in, you know, New York or in California. It also, I think, is quite telling that still to this day, I think the nber maybe is up to 10% of medical school curriculs even talk about medical cannabis or herbal medicine. Most medical schools, even gastroenterologists who study the digestive system, get maybe two hours of nutrition training. So it’s an unfortunate truth. In at least in the United States, our medical schools are governed by the American Medical Association, which is governed by pharmaceutical companies. You know, the curricul is a pharmaceutical based curricul, and that’s just a fact. It’s not an opinion. And because of that, you know, you have these young people with these aspiring careers to go help their counities in medicine. And there’s a big weeding out or brainwashing. I mean, I know kids in medical school that I’ve known since they were five years old, and I know, you know, young, they’re not young anymore. They’re in their mid to late 20s who were raised by parents who, you know, had a doula for birth and a naturopath as their family doctor.
Joanna Tandberg: And, you know, they would go to the apothecary before they go to the drugstore. But as soon as that young person becomes an adult and graduates college and is in the medical school program. All that is out the window. They have like Reprogramed. And so then their life experience, it might take them 10 to 20 years to come back around, unless they go in with that intention to understand and integrate the holistic side of medicine. Because let’s face it, holistic medicine, herbal medicine has been around for at least 5000, if not 10,000 years. You know where I’m from in Washington, the Native American tribes have lived in the same exact area for 10,000 years. I mean, we know that for a fact. And they were not taking pills. You know, they were making medicine out of the elderberries and and the hazelnuts and the, the Oregon grape that grows nearby and the echinacea that grows. I mean, they were making their own medicine. And here we still are alive today as han beings on this planet. So, you know, our evolutionary medicine is based on herbs and plants.
Surani Fernando: Yeah, definitely.
Surani Fernando: And I think the brainwashing part is so interesting because, you know, I think that, yeah, you go into the realm of Western medicine and yes, it’s very much like it. We can only say that this does this if it’s statistically significant, because it’s been in that clinical trial that has a lot of money behind it, and it’s got there, the evidence is there, and then it’s anything else that’s outside, which obviously we all know doesn’t have the funding to back a massive clinical trial. It hasn’t been proven the evidence isn’t there. But like it’s like, can we just be real about it? Like the evidence is not there because no one is putting the funding behind studying it because it’s not going to make any money.
Surani Fernando: Like what exactly do you feel about it?
Joanna Tandberg: And if they do, if they do, like for instance, turmeric is a great example. So turmeric has been used as one of the like nber one, you know, top ten herbs in pharmacopeia of Ayurveda that are that are easy and accessible. I mean, there are so many herbs in, in, in the book of Ayurveda, but, you know, certain ones like turmeric and ginger and black pepper for digestion and inflaation and things of that nature are just easy. Most people can get their hands on it. And when you know cinnamon and cardamom and like these different like what we think are cooking spices have have such a positive effect on, on our health. But but once Western medicine or science gets go to work we should study this. So then they want to change it. They want to isolate one part of it the curcin. It’s not the same, you know, just like aspirin. You know, it comes from willow bark. And the reason a lot of people get stomach aches or they just don’t feel good after aspirin is because it’s harsh on the stomach. It needs the fiber in order to be absorbed properly. Otherwise, we find we get different types of gastrointestinal problems, such as like a leaky gut syndrome or different, you know, problems breaking it down in the stomach because pharmaceutical industry decided to isolate one part of the aspirin and not keep it together with the whole plant. Had they just made a different formula, we probably wouldn’t have that problem. So I think, you know, oftentimes they try to it try to make money off of it. You know, it’s hard when you can tell someone to plant something in your garden and, and all of a sudden you don’t need to take Tylenol anymore.
Surani Fernando: Yeah. Yeah.
Surani Fernando: For sure. And, you know, we talked about studies, obviously, you know, in this industry it’s hard to get those studies done. But what, what what do you have to, you know, like the anecdotal evidence, the small studies that you’ve done to sort of allow your products to be sold basically.
Surani Fernando: .
Joanna Tandberg: Well, you know what I’ve learned. Well, there’s a couple answers to this question because, , allowing my products to be sold is like a Pandora’s box. So, you know, there’s a lot of regulations around CBD and what you can and can’t say what you can and can’t write claims that you can’t make even if they’re true. And and that has been like a Where’s Waldo since I opened the store in like January of 2019, it has been constantly trying to keep up with the rules for social media, for Facebook or Instagram, or for advertising or for Google or, you know, your website builder. And there’s so many things you can or can’t say, and it doesn’t matter how many resources or, you know, , and notes that I make with, you know, bibliography to prove like this is this is a science behind, you know, let’s say, you know, CBD for epilepsy. And here, you know, here is all the research of how this helps, you know, with seizures, I still can’t really say that on my website. And, and to that point is I’ve actually and since since we’ve booked this interview, I’ve actually closed my store because of the constant berating I received or shadow banning that I’ve received through social media, even though I followed the rules. You know, every once in a while, you know, like a testimonial, someone would use my magic salve and say, my gosh, it totally reduced my inflaation in my hand.
Joanna Tandberg: And the pain went away. And I get dinged for something I don’t even touch. And next thing you know, you know, my credit card company kept all of our money last year. It took me six months to get paid. We were put in Facebook jail, Instagram jail. We got shut out of Google. So even though I’m just like telling stories that are truths and selling products that are third party tested, grown organically. I know the farmer, I know the I mean, I’m invested in all of the experiences I still can’t compete with, you know, big drug companies or even like a Cheech and Chong cannabis industry because their money, the money is not there. So, so many small companies like mine, like like Z botanicals, small CBD companies that are, you know, started with people that really just wanted to make a difference. We are like the dinosaurs. We’re not around very much anymore because we so many of the small businesses have been bought up by tobacco or pharmaceutical companies, but they they are fronted by a different name. And so you don’t know that going into the store like some of the largest CBD companies in the United States that are like in every store, like Walmart’s and Walgreens.
Surani Fernando: And.
Joanna Tandberg: You’re not products I would use. They’re owned by Russian oligarch. You know, some of these companies are owned by Philip Morris. And, you know, small CBD. Farms have been bought out across Oregon by a Native American casino companies. And so. You’re losing you’re losing kind of the hands on small business oriented CBD companies. Because of the problem of just like what you were asking of, how do you how can you put your. I can put my name behind my product all day long, and I’m very proud of it because of the amount of people that I’ve helped over the last many years. You know, I’ve seen I’ve seen things I never thought possible. , and I still have clients that, you know, whose kids use my tinctures. You know, I make products for them, for, , for autism. I have people with leukemia. I work with people with Crn’s disease, arthritis, rheatoid arthritis. And they have less pain, less inflaation. Maybe they sleep better at night. Their appetite’s increased. So my my goal in life is just to keep educating and counseling and spreading the word. And then now I’m stepping back momentarily from having an e-coerce site store and just focusing on educating and finding other companies that are able to stay ahead of all the tech and supporting them.
Surani Fernando: So right now, like because was it more like regulation, like the FDA, like sort of saying you can’t make those claims and then. Or was it just like the social aspect of it like.
Surani Fernando: No, actually.
Joanna Tandberg: It’s funny you should ask me that question, because the final ding for me came last year when I was on my way to a conference in San Diego or California. I forget where it was. And as I’m driving out with our van full of all our products and, you know, we were a sponsor. So all the stuff you do for a vendor table, , my bookkeeper was trying to get Ahold of me, and I kept sending it to voicemail because, like, we’re trying to get out the door to drive to California, and finally he gets Ahold of me. He’s like, none of the money from your store is going into your bank account. It’s like, what are you talking about? He’s like, none of your money. You’re not getting the money. You’ve sold the product. It’s been shipped. The customer has the. They paid, but you don’t have the money. And so I jp online. I was like, my God, you know what just happened? And the reason was so my credit card company that we pay a lot of money for that, did all my online work, said that I was breaking FDA rules because I posted a article on LinkedIn, and I guess maybe on my website.
Joanna Tandberg: I remember that was a mayo clinic guide to using cannabis for their clients or their their patients. And all I did was reshare it and said, you know, I said, kudos to Mayo Clinic for, you know, being behind this innovative new old medicine. I don’t even know what I said. I’m like, that doesn’t make any sense. And so, you know, started the whole process of getting the funding back. This was in June. It took me till October to finally get my funds. So it essentially kind of put me out of business. , in that time, I spoke to our, our representative investigator for the FDA For my business in my region and told her what happened. And she said, this has nothing to do with the FDA. She’s like, these are companies going after small businesses that aren’t bringing in revenue on their online presence and their Google presence, and also the social media. I don’t even get it like Facebook, Instagram. It doesn’t matter how many times I’ve rebranded. We’ve rebranded twice. We’ve created three different pages. They follow me around and nobody sees my posts. So I was like, I’m done.
Surani Fernando: I’m quite surprised, actually, that Facebook would do that because, you know, there’s so much, you know, identity theft and stuff that goes on on Facebook. I’ve had friends that have said someone’s hacked into my account and is selling tickets. It’s I don’t know how to it’s impossible to like, get through to Facebook to be like to report someone that they’re like a fake person. And this is something that you’re, like, real and you’ve got your own, like, business. And that’s. Yeah. For me, that doesn’t make any sense.
Joanna Tandberg: It’s terrible. It’s terrible. And, you know, we’ve hired specialists and, you know, Facebook specific, you know, Instagram, Facebook specialists that tell us exactly we didn’t do things wrong. You know, early on, probably five years ago, I probably made some mistakes. I probably got a little bit too, you know, vocal with some of my what I was sharing. But that’s not when it happened. So it just it was an interesting, you know, same thing happened on Google. I was trying to advertise for Yoga Retreat that I was leading in Mexico and had nothing to do with CBD, nothing to do with anything. Hired a specialist for Mexico, American advertising with Google Words and Google Clicks and all that. Gave my credit card and did a beautiful ad that I’ve used for years. I’ve been teaching retreats internationally since 2011. This was nothing new, and I received a letter saying, we have traced you and your business and website to illegal substances and therefore we will not allow you to advertise on Google. I’m like, what are you talking about? And they kept $1,500 of my money and wouldn’t return it and didn’t let me advertise for my retreat.
Joanna Tandberg: So, you know, I don’t. And I’ve met other small CBD companies, like really small, like I’m small. There was this, you know, it was like four of us, you know, plus, you know, freelancers that I had hired for different things. But yeah, I can’t compete with the big guys. And and I think right now they’re trying to really just support the big, big companies. And I’m not a conspiracy theorist. I don’t go into all that. I just know what happened to me and and how difficult it’s been to kind of speak my truth. And that’s all I wanted to do, is I just wanted to, like, give people information to make the choices themselves. And then it became like, well, now that I made my choice, where do I get the product? And so that developed into, gosh, I can’t find a product I like as much as my own. So it was kind of one of those filling in what was needed. And and I’m not done.
Surani Fernando: I’m just not.
Surani Fernando: It’s not illegal.
Surani Fernando: Like I know.
Surani Fernando: I for me, like I’m still confused as to why that happened.
Joanna Tandberg: Listen, I’m sorry. They used the word illicit. Not illegal. Illicit. I knew once I said that that didn’t seem like the right word. It was illicit.
Surani Fernando: Okay, still. And then making claim, I mean.
Surani Fernando: But so then you’ve shifted to just your focus on your Ayurveda, wellness consulting and those sorts of things, which they can’t. I mean, sometimes I wonder, like, is the FDA going to come down on people saying like, you know, take garlic for a cold or whatever, like, you know, you cannot make that claim about food. I mean, I don’t.
Surani Fernando: I hope not.
Joanna Tandberg: Yeah. That’s why I don’t throw away. That’s why I keep books. You know, we’re moving again. Like I mentioned to you before we started our interview. And I keep going through things and taking them to donate. And I’m down to like, okay, if the satellites go out and we are done with technology for a year, and I need to make sure that, you know, our future generations are still educated. What can I keep? Books. And you know, these books, you know, these almanacs and these guides that have been passed on for generations on things like what you just said, like the power of garlic, you know, the power of ginger, the power of pure water, the power of the breath and and mindfulness. I mean, these are things you can’t take away from us. And so I think it’s important for the younger generation to, to have these tools and to pass on to their children. So we are not dependent on technology and we’re not dependent on pharmaceuticals or we’re not going to survive.
Surani Fernando: Right. And and just when I.
Surani Fernando: See like I see them all the time, just even here in Europe, you know, like marijuana in its full form is, is not legalized like it is in the states, in, in the US. But you know, the CBD stores and you know, they’re, they’re, they’re pretty they’re kind of everywhere. So what are people buying in those. And like and why are they, are they, are they just not claiming to to do anything big. And that’s why they, they can continue to, to be sold.
Surani Fernando: Yeah.
Joanna Tandberg: It’s interesting these these nbers that are the the legal allowable limits, for example. And they’re similar in Europe. They’re not exactly the same nbers, but they’re arbitrary nbers. These are not based on science or medical fact. , for instance, a CBD product that you can buy, you know, easily in the United States and you can even take it on an airplane with you must have, , THC levels below 0.3%. Well, that’s that’s insane. I mean, it’s it’s it’s good to have something in there because the, the CBD does not work as well if it’s isolated or if it’s distilled where it’s just one part, one one part of the plant, you really need the whole plant. And in order to have the whole plant be beneficial, that means you have THC. Also, it’s one of, you know, between the the terpenes and the cannabinoids, you have hundreds of parts to this plant that all work synergistically together. But a couple guys came up with some nber, I mean, and there’s kind of a I don’t know how true the story is, so I won’t pass it on, but it’s kind of ridiculous where they got this nber and and lobbyists grabbed it and took it to the government officials. And they said, that’s a good nber. We’ll use that. It’s really not the best nber. The ratios are off. But what most people are finding in these stores, typically what I find is I like to go in and just ask questions and see what they have is a couple of product lines are good. , a lot of it’s junk and it’s whatever is like the current, you know, product of the day, you know, candy, a cookie, a brownie, chips, drinks. I mean, a lot of it’s just ridiculous. Yeah. , what I recoend to my clients is always look for something that is, well, you know, ideally from your country of origin.
Joanna Tandberg: , so for me, in the United States, you know, maybe in the United States, grown organically may not be certified organic because there’s a lot of red tape for that. And, you know, I wasn’t certified organic, but I know every component of my product was organic. I just couldn’t put the sticker on because I didn’t want to pay those fees. But finding something that’s full spectr and that is in a base that is in oil, ideally is going to be your best bet and looking for different ratios. So you can find ratios where it’s a dominant CBD tincture, it’s a 1 to 1. Those are usually found in a dispensary, which means you have to have a medical card. In some states and in other states you don’t. It just depends. , a 1 to 1 would mean you have the same percentage of CBD as you do to THC, and for a lot of people, that’s going to be very strong. And so I don’t usually recoend people start that way, but that’s maybe a goal for them. So I’ll start people on low levels of CBD. Often less is more. You know, I recoend they keep a journal. They they pay attention to how they feel. I help people understand when the best time to take it, how to take it, , if and when they should take higher levels of THC, if they should have a ratio of 1 to 1 or 4 to 1 or 1 to 4, because different ailments have different respond differently to these different, these different molecules in the plant. And so understanding what the issue is helps to understand how what to take and how to take it.
Surani Fernando: Okay.
Surani Fernando: And so for your clients, because you are, you know, certified clinical CBD clinician, you said you will just purchase some. You have another place that you purchase that those products.
Joanna Tandberg: I usually will try to put it in the hands of of the client. Like I’ll give them the information they need. If they press me for a recoendation, I give recoendations. Right? , for, for like certain certain brands or there is a brand that I am just forming a relationship with that I’ve followed for many, many years, but they were a competitor up until recently. Okay. So I’m like, okay, I think I can now say their name out loud, so I’ll be putting that out on my website in the next couple of weeks. , and it’s they’re formulated by a doctor who I highly respect. And the company is owned by two nurses who have been in the field for, you know, over a decade. So, you know, now I’m, I’ve reached out to the colleagues of mine that I’ve made over these years and, you know, kind of explained because I was small when I decided to do, and I’ve had a few say, , come work for us. I’m like, well, I’m not ready to do that. But I could maybe do is, you know, pass your pass your company onto my clients as I step back from making formulas. And I’m not done. You know, white labeling is something and, and I’m kind of thinking about doing and I’ve been approached from some companies, some start up CBD companies are like, hey, I want to, you know, we’ve got funding. You know, we have an angel investor or, or a board of investors and we want to start. What do you recoend those kind of consulting gigs I enjoy? I like talking to people about starting their business. I have a book of formulas that I never got to make for the public, just for private use, and I’d love to see those go somewhere someday, but I’ve decided not to wear that many hats at once. I’m going to stick to just a couple of hats. Yeah, it was a lot. Yeah, it was a lot.
Surani Fernando: Well, we’ve come to the end.
Surani Fernando: Just to finish off like, you know, for those just just rounding back to, to Ayurveda The practices. You know, for those who may want to integrate some of that into their daily lives, they might not know what how they can start that doesn’t involve, you know, lots of resources and going and buying lots of products. How what are some a few things that they can do to just get started?
Joanna Tandberg: , that’s a great question. I would say the kind of the easiest as far as not spending any money. Easy, but not always the easiest because it’s changing a routine is pay attention to how you spend your 24 hours. You know, maybe even writing out a graph. Like how many hours do you sleep? You know, what hours do you eat? , what are your most productive times? What are your least productive times? And start just paying attention to your own rhythm? , and then keeping in mind that when when we sleep, we heal. When we have deep, deep sleep, specifically within certain circadian times of the day and night. So between 10 p.m. and 2 a.m. is one of the most important times to be at rest, because that’s when our body is fully digesting, not just our gastrointestinal system digesting, but we’re digesting everything that was brought in through our five senses to that. And that’s what shapes and creates our mind, you know? Our mind is, is this, you know, subtle, ethereal, like, how do you put your finger on where your mind is, but it’s born from our sensory input. So during a course of however many hours we’re awake, what happens? You know, we hear, we see, we taste, we touch, we smell. And that has to be digested. And our thoughts and our emotions have to be dealt with. Not to mention the food, the drink and the air that we breathe. And so people that that don’t sleep well or that stay up late, that don’t get a good amount of sleep, that’s one of the most detrimental effects on our health. And so I usually start with people on trying to create good sleep habits, you know, unplugging from electronics, you know, turning down the lights, you know, maybe having a nice warm beverage in the evening, , not eating for 2 to 3 hours prior to bedtime is is a really important start for the digestion.
Joanna Tandberg: , some like self-care things. A tongue scraper is one of our favorite things. And cleaning the tongue because that’s the first step of digestion for the entire process. It’s the counication center between the brain and the gut. So things like that, you know, noticing, you know, how we feel after we eat, maybe keeping a journal, taking a five minute break, maybe putting it on your phone as a calendar beep to sit down and just watch your breath for five minutes a day if you’re not already doing those kinds of practices. Basically, we’re we’re instilling awareness in the base of Ayurveda. The way I understand it and the way I share it with with my clients and my my counity. Is mindfulness like being mindful of yourself and then your impact of your actions on your own self, and then how that then expands to those around you, those that live with you, those that are in your sphere of friendships and family, counity, coworkers. Because it is like this domino effect of how we treat ourselves and just being aware and then all those other things like, you know, food and yoga and herbs and drinks and all the funky stuff that people put on their skin and up their noses and things like that, that comes extra. Those are the they work and they have incredible abilities. But the mindfulness starts first.
Surani Fernando: Yeah. And it’s really easy. Well, easy to do. Yeah.
Surani Fernando: You’ve got all the resources there at your fingertips. It’s just, you know, being mindful that that is, as we say, that it’s 11 p.m. here. So I’m not like doing well with your recoendation. But I do live in Spain. So sometimes I wonder, you know, the late night people are up later just generally here. They have dinner at 910. They, they do have siestas. Well, not I mean, not on a Monday to Friday basis. Now, these days, it’s, you know, things have changed. It’s the how society is. But I often wonder that because when I these are the people that are do have long lifespans and they’re known for, you know, the like an aging population, a lot of it is tied to mental health. And, you know, so the social aspect, , having strong social connections. But yeah, I always wonder about that timing thing with the sleep because it definitely doesn’t align with, you know, what a lot of people say in terms of when the sun goes down, you know, you should be winding down.
Surani Fernando: Mhm.
Joanna Tandberg: Absolutely. We’ve created a bit of a monster when we brought in electricity around the world. Right. Yeah. And then technology and it put it at everyone’s fingertips to where we really extended our, our day. And when you know we’re not following that rhythm which is so important. You know one of the nber one causes of illness inflaation and death is stress. And one of the nber one causes of stress is lack of sleep. And, you know, every course I’ve taken in Ayurveda or any type of holistic wellness on day one, if you know any doctor or teacher worth their weight comes in and talks about sleep first and foremost every time. So you’re ready for this big aha! You’re like sleep, huh?
Surani Fernando: It’s back to.
Joanna Tandberg: Sleep. Sleep?
Surani Fernando: Yes. Yeah, exactly.
Joanna Tandberg: You’ve been stressed. So you know. Yes. You can sleep when you die, but you’re going to die sooner if you don’t sleep now, so I recoend fitting in the sleep. So.
Surani Fernando: Well thank you Joanna.
Surani Fernando: This has been such an insightful conversation. So many moving parts, lots of roller coasters there. But, you know, I’m glad that you’re well. And that also your dad assing he’s also. Well. , yes. And wishing you all all the best with, you know, your endeavors and and your next phase as you as you think about the next steps and yeah, hopefully we’ll we’ll keep in touch to our listeners, be sure to visit Joe’s website, which is WW, Dot Joe Bolkcom, and you find more resources there on her Ayurveda wellness practices. And don’t forget to subscribe to Holistic health habits for more inspiring conversations with leading experts in holistic health. Thanks for tuning in. I’m Surani Fernando and we’ll see you on the next episode.