Episode Overview
Episode Topic
In this compelling episode of Holistic Health Habits, host Surani Fernando interviews Dr. Peter Brukner, a world-renowned sports medicine clinician, researcher, and advocate for reversing type 2 diabetes through low-carb diets and lifestyle changes. Dr. Brukner shares his personal health journey and discusses how adopting a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet helped him lose weight, reverse metabolic issues, and ultimately put his pre-diabetes into remission. The episode explores the link between processed foods, sugar, and chronic diseases like type 2 diabetes, offering practical advice for managing health through dietary choices.
Listeners will gain insights into the importance of understanding nutrition’s impact on diabetes management and overall well-being. This episode is a valuable resource for anyone looking to make informed changes to their diet and lifestyle to prevent or reverse type 2 diabetes.
Lessons You’ll Learn
Dr. Peter Brukner’s personal journey provides a wealth of lessons about managing type 2 diabetes through simple dietary changes. You’ll learn how a low-carb, high-fat diet can improve metabolic health, reduce inflammation, and help manage chronic diseases. Dr. Brukner explains the science behind carbohydrates and their role in increasing blood sugar levels, making them a primary culprit in the development of type 2 diabetes.
The episode also highlights how a shift to a real food diet, rich in healthy fats and proteins, can lead to sustainable weight loss and long-term health benefits. You’ll discover why processed foods and sugar are major contributors to the diabetes epidemic and how embracing a low-carb lifestyle can help reverse the condition.
About Our Guest
Dr. Peter Brukner is an Australian sports medicine clinician and researcher who has worked with top-tier sports teams, including Liverpool Football Club, the Australian Olympic Team, and the Socceroos. His expertise in sports medicine has earned him global recognition, but his career took a significant turn when he personally faced pre-diabetes. Determined to avoid the fate of his father, who suffered from type 2 diabetes, Dr. Brukner immersed himself in nutritional research, eventually adopting a low-carb, high-fat diet.
This dietary transformation led him to reverse his metabolic issues and become a passionate advocate for using nutrition to combat type 2 diabetes. As the founder of Defeat Diabetes, Dr. Brukner now helps thousands of people through his program, which focuses on simple dietary changes that can put diabetes into remission.
Topics Covered
This episode covers a wide range of topics related to type 2 diabetes management, starting with Dr. Peter Brukner’s personal health journey and the steps he took to reverse his pre-diabetes. Key topics include the dangers of processed foods and sugar, the benefits of adopting a low-carb, high-fat diet, and the science behind how carbohydrates affect blood sugar levels. Dr. Brukner also delves into the role of exercise, stress management, and fasting as complementary strategies for improving metabolic health.
Listeners will also learn about the Defeat Diabetes program, which Dr. Brukner co-founded to help others prevent and reverse type 2 diabetes. The episode provides practical tips for reducing carbohydrate intake, avoiding processed foods, and embracing a real food diet that supports long-term health and wellness.
Our Guest: Dr. Peter Brukner
Dr. Peter Brukner is a highly respected Australian sports medicine clinician, researcher, and educator with an illustrious career that spans over four decades. He has worked with some of the world’s top athletes and sports teams, including the Australian Olympic Team, the Sac ceros, and Liverpool Football Club, where he served as head of sports medicine and sports science. His expertise in sports and exercise medicine is renowned, and he co-authored the widely used medical textbook, Clinical Sports Medicine. Brukner has also held academic positions at several universities, including the University of Melbourne and La Trobe University, where he has contributed to advancing research in his field.
However, his career took a significant turn when he faced his own health crisis in his 60s. Struggling with weight gain, metabolic issues, and a family history of type 2 diabetes, Dr. Brukner delved into research that led him to adopt a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet. Within three months, he lost 13 kilograms, reversed his fatty liver, and significantly improved his metabolic health. This personal experience ignited his passion for advocating dietary changes to manage and reverse type 2 diabetes, challenging the conventional low-fat dietary guidelines that had dominated for decades.
Dr. Brukner is now the chairperson of Defeat Diabetes, an Australian-based program aimed at helping people prevent and reverse type 2 diabetes through lifestyle and dietary changes. He has become a leading voice in the low-carb community, actively promoting the benefits of reducing sugar and processed foods while increasing healthy fats and proteins. His program has helped thousands of individuals improve their blood sugar levels, lose weight, and in many cases, put their diabetes into remission. Through his work, he continues to advocate for a paradigm shift in the medical field toward recognizing nutrition’s central role in chronic disease management.
TRANSCRIPT
Surani Fernando: Welcome to another episode of Holistic Health Habits, the podcast where we explore the latest trends, innovations, and insights in holistic health and wellness. I’m your host,Surani Fernando. Today we’re speaking with Doctor Peter Brukner, a world renowned Australian sports medicine clinician and researcher. And he’s also the chairperson of Defeat Diabetes, an organization committed to reversing type two diabetes through lifestyle changes and holistic health practices. When we talk about nutrition, diabetes management and prevention is often front and center in the broader conversation. So this is surely to be an extremely insightful discussion. Welcome to the show, Peter. It’s great to have you on.
Doctor Peter Brukner: Right. Thanks for having me, Sharon. Looking forward to chatting.
Surani Fernando: Great. So just to start us off, you know, can you tell us a little bit about your background as a sports doctor? I mean, you’ve got a pretty impressive rese. I’m an Australian myself, so I was impressed by, you know, what you’ve been doing over your career and and then your personal journey that led you to the role as chairperson at the Defeat diabetes.
Doctor Peter Brukner: Yeah. As you said, my my background is in sports medicine. So I’m a I’m a medical doctor and who specializes in sport and exercise medicine. I’ve, , ran a clinic here in, , in Melbourne, a multidisciplinary sports medicine clinic for, , for many years and worked with a whole bunch of, , of, , athletes, both, , you know, elite athletes, but also just, , you know, everyday people at our clinic. I work with a nber of sporting teams, Australia and, , I’m based in Melbourne, Australia. So Australian national sporting teams, our swim team, , field hockey team, Athletics, soccer, cricket. I went to Olympics with the Australian team. I then did the, , the Socceroos Australian soccer football team did the World Cup in South Africa with them. After that went to the Liverpool Football Club in the Premier League in the UK as their head of sports medicine, sports science and a few years there and then , did , looked after the Australian cricket team, , for five years from 2012 to 2017. So yeah, my, my passion has always been sport and sports medicine. And to be honest, if you told me, you know, ten years ago that I’d be sitting here talking to you about diabetes. I’d have I’d have laughed. But, everything’s sort of changed for me about ten years. Well, now it’s 12 years now. Gosh. Yeah. 12 years ago, I was living in, , in the UK and working and living in Liverpool and, , you know, if you’d asked me then, you know, how do I.
Doctor Peter Brukner: How’s my health? I’d have probably said, yeah, you know, I’m okay. I just turned 60. I, you know, sort of, , thought I had a pretty good diet. I exercised regularly, I wasn’t sort of taking any medications, but the reality was I probably wasn’t quite as healthy as I thought I was. For a start, I had a family history of type two diabetes, so my father had developed type two diabetes at exactly the age I was then, which was 60, and I’d seen what it did to him. And I really, you know, didn’t want to go down that path. I was also quite overweight, obese. You know, I like many middle aged men, you know, and I consider 60 middle aged. I used to think it was old, but now I think it’s middle aged. Like many, I’d probably put on, you know, half a kilogram a week, a pound a week for, for 30 years, you know, just and and gradually getting thicker around the waist. And my kids are starting to sort of, you know, poke me in the belly and say, you know, come on, dad. And I shrugged my shoulders and say, well, you know, I’m under, you know, I’m on a low fat diet and I exercise, you know, it’s not my fault. And then I also had a number of metabolic issues that, you know, like a typical doctor I’d ignored. I had high insulin levels, high triglyceride levels, which is an important fat in the blood.
Doctor Peter Brukner: And I did a thing called a fatty liver for ten years, and, , I didn’t really take too much notice of it. I didn’t really understand what a fatty liver was. I figured I was on a low fat diet, you know, I’d be fine. So that’s that was me back then. And in retrospect, I was clearly pre-diabetic. But I had no, you know, no understanding of that at the time. So around that time, I started to, , an old friend of mine, Tim Noakes, from in Cape Town, South Africa, he was a very, very smart man. And he, , sort of came out and suggested that, , it wasn’t fat. That was the problem. It was actually sugar and carbohydrates that were the problem, and that we actually had it all wrong. Had the dietary guidelines all wrong for the last 50 years. And he’d changed his diet to a low carb diet and reversed his type two diabetes and so on. And when I heard this, I thought, oh, Tim, really? You know, you’ve lost the plot this time. I mean, you know, don’t be ridiculous. You know, we couldn’t possibly have had this all wrong for all this time, but because Tim’s a super smart guy and he’s actually been proven right on a couple of other occasions when he challenged the norms in sports science. I thought, no, I need to look into this.
Doctor Peter Brukner: So I read a book, which is unusual for a doctor, but I read a book. , it was, , Gary Taubes Good calories, bad calories. And, , you know, as a as a journalist, he’s not a doctor. , but he wrote a fascinating book that not only talked about the sort of relative merits of fats and carbohydrates, but talked about the politics of that, how we got to the how the low fat movement won out over the low carb movement back in the 60s and 70s. And I remember reading this book and finding it quite disturbing. You know, I sort of distinctly remember sitting down one night on my bed. I just read another chapter, and I was looking out over the right of this lovely apartment, looking out over the Mersey River at Liverpool and thinking, you know, this, you know, this is we can’t have got this wrong. Anyway, so I read this book and then I got me really interested. So I dived into everything I could possibly get my hands on. I could read Journal articles and books. And the more I read, the more I thought, you know, I think this might be right. So I thought, well, I’m a scientist. Okay, so I need to do a research study, and I need to look into this. As a scientist, I also know that, you know, a study with an n equals one is a waste of time. Except when the one is you. So I decided it was time for an n equals one experiment on myself.
Doctor Peter Brukner: I would, , try three months on a low carb diet and see what happened. So on, , on day one, I got my bloods taken, , and I, you know, weighed myself. And then I embarked on this three months of a pretty strict low carb diet. So I stopped eating all the all sugary foods, all the carbohydrates. So no potatoes, pasta, rice, cereals and so on. , the only fruit I had was berries. And , you know, no fruit juice? No, nothing like that. So pretty strict. What I replaced that with was probably the way that my grandparents would eat just real food, you know, meat, fish, eggs and all that cholesterol. Dairy. All unsaturated fat. You know, all these, , you know, lots of vegetables. And , I said the only fruit I had was berries. So what happened? They cut a long story short, I started to lose weight pretty much straight away. I started to feel a lot more energetic. I slept better, my exercise improved, my concentration improved. And at the end of the three months, I’d lost 13kg in 13 weeks despite never being hungry, eating as much as I wanted to eat. But the more fat I ate, the more fat I lost. And then I did. My bloods and all my metabolic issues had resolved my fatty liver that I’d had for ten years. Back to normal. Triglycerides. Normal. Insulin. Normal. And it was just blew me away.
Doctor Peter Brukner: And so in the space of three months, you know, I’d completely reversed all my metabolic health issues. The one downside was that I needed a new wardrobe because I couldn’t fit into any of my clothes. But now I figured that was a small price to pay for, , Prayer for good health. So. So that really sort of was such an eye opener for me. I couldn’t believe it. And my friends and family couldn’t believe it either. I guess when something like that happens to me that, you know, you’ve got two choices. You can either just sort of keep it to yourself. Although it was hard because everyone would come up to me and say, gosh, you know what to be done. You know, you look completely different, or you can sort of become a bit of an advocate. And I guess I decided I would become an advocate for that way of eating. Yeah. So I started to talk about it, started to write about it. And then over the next few years, I started a charity called Sugar by Half, which is doing a lot of really good work with schools, programs and things like that. , and then, , then wrote a book called The Fat Lot of Good, , publishers approached me and I said, the last thing the world needs is another diet book. But they convinced me there weren’t too many by doctors or by Australian doctors. So I wrote that, and it turned out to be on the best seller list for three months.
Doctor Peter Brukner: So, , that that had a bit of an impact. And then all along, really that the elephant in the room was always type two diabetes. You know, I mean, it’s I believe it’s the single biggest health issue in, in, in my country and in probably in the Western world as well. And I could two things I couldn’t understand why there wasn’t more concern about it and why if I wasn’t sort of jumping up and down wanting to do something about type two diabetes. And then secondly, why, you know, when we knew that there was a very good solution to type two diabetes, that people would were promulgating it. So first of all, why wasn’t it a big deal? I’ve got a theory on that. My theory is that people don’t die of diabetes. That’s the problem. I know it sounds very sort of bizarre, but the problem is that diabetes causes, you know, a lot of complications. And that’s the things people die of. You know, it’s the most common cause of blindness, the most common cause of amputations, the most common cause of, , of kidney disease, of liver and kidney transplants. It’s associated with most cases of heart attacks and cardiovascular disease. It’s closely associated with Alzheimer’s. Alzheimer’s is called type three diabetes, such as the close association. And so they’re the things that people focus on instead of the root cause, which is type two diabetes. So it just gets ignored in the medical system.
Doctor Peter Brukner: And then, you know, it was very clear to me from, from evidence from studies in both the UK and the US that, you know, a low carbohydrate diet is very effective in putting type two diabetes into remission, which makes sense because type two diabetes is a disease of carbohydrate intolerance. So as my kids would say, you know, d, you know, you don’t give them carbohydrates. I mean, you don’t give alcoholics alcohol, you don’t give, you know, people with celiac disease, gluten. I mean, if you take away the carbohydrates, you solve the problem. You put the diabetes into remission. And there was good evidence, you know, in the diabetes.co.uk trials, in the Virta trials of the US. Would have said it worked. And so I thought, well, we needed a program for Australians that they can do. And initially we tried we talked to the UK people about maybe licensing their program. We bit the bullet and my Covid project was, was to put together a program called Defeat Diabetes. I partnered with a fellow sports medicine doctor, Paul Mason, who is very prominent in the low carb world, and a dietician called Nicole Moore. And we put together like a 13 part program full of videos and articles of meal plans and recipes and cooking demonstrations and so on. And initially, that was an app, and now it’s both an app and a web based program. And we have a really active Facebook group of members.
Doctor Peter Brukner: It’s a subscription model. So you, , you pay a very small amount, , to cover our code, in theory, to cover our costs. We haven’t quite covered our costs yet, but, , and, , you pay a subscription, which amounts to about, , a cup of coffee every fortnight. Coffee is very expensive these days. And in Melbourne we’ve had over 10,000 people do that, do that program. Now, that sounds like a lot. But, you know, when you’ve got probably 2 million people in the country with, , with type two diabetes, it’s still a long way to go. And our target is 100,000 people. And the results of the program have been, , been astonishing. Really. It would be similar to the published results from overseas. But, you know, we’ve done a number of surveys of our members, which is not strict science. I agree, but that shows that, you know, more than half of them have put their diabetes or their HBA one C level, which is the test we use to determine diabetes back into the Non-diabetic range. So they’ve gone from being diabetic range to non-diabetic range. And nearly all of them have improved their glucose control. They’ve lost weight. They’ve gone off a lot of their medications. , but as I said, that’s really only surveys of our members. What we have done is commissioned a university here in Melbourne, La Trobe University to conduct a proper trial into the efficacy of our program.
Doctor Peter Brukner: We’ve had a PhD student working on that for the last couple of years, and we recruited 100 people with type two diabetes through their general practitioners, and their GP would then get them started on the program and then monitor them for the next 12 months. And we have our, , our three month results, which were just submitted for publication now. And similarly, they show more than 50% of people are no longer in the diabetic range and a lot of other benefits as well. So, you know, it’s not a surprise to us, but it just confirms that, that the program works. So we’re, , we’re excited that on the one stage because it clearly is very effective, but frustrated that it’s very slow to take up. And, , you know, we still have a lot of opposition from both within the medical profession and the dietetics profession who don’t, , don’t believe in it. And, , you know, doctors are always looking for drugs and surgery and so on, rather than simple measures like diet and exercise. So it’s a bit frustrating. You know, sometimes I think, you know, I’m bashing my head against a brick wall or wasting our time and, and then you get an email from someone saying, you know, look, you’ve changed my life. I no longer have type two diabetes and so on. So, you know, we’ll keep going. So that was a very long winded reply I.
Surani Fernando: Know it definitely a great summary, a great overview of that. And like so many questions were going through my head. I mean, the first one which I find is really interesting is that you’re a medical doctor, you know, the profession of health. And we talk about this a lot like where Western medicine, you know, the study of medicine, it’s often, you know, focused on the drugs and it’s not there’s a disconnect with the nutrition aspect, whereas that’s a huge part of, you know, health and health and wellbeing. And, you know, I talked to a lot of doctors like MDS who, like, you have understood how important that part is for the overall picture of health, like how do you see that disconnect? Is there still a big disconnect with, you know, understanding like bringing in the nutrition conversation into the Western medicine world. I mean, you said that you got some pushback from doctors.
Doctor Peter Brukner: I think to be fair, you know, it’s not so much the doctor’s fault. I mean, you know, you stay in your comfort zone, you know, and our comfort zone as doctors is drugs and surgery. That’s what we’re taught. And that’s what we grow up believing.
Surani Fernando: It’s medicine. Yeah.
Doctor Peter Brukner: That’s right. And, you know, we get no teaching on nutrition, no teaching on exercise. I didn’t have a single lecture on nutrition in my six years of medical course. Now, that was a long time ago, but I don’t think things have improved that much. So the pharmaceutical companies have way too much influence over medicine. They fund all the research, they fund all the conferences, they fund all the education. And so naturally, you know, the bias is towards, you know, towards pharmaceuticals. There is no money in nutrition. That’s the problem. And you know, so and yet, you know, the effects are dramatic. , so we really need a complete, you know, set of 180 degree turnaround. It’s, you know, look, sometimes I get encouraged and, you know, there are a lot of young doctors in particular are more interested in the sort of holistic approach. But, you know, it’s still very frustrating that, , you know, I give lots of talks and, you know, everyone says, yeah, yeah, yeah, but, you know, nothing, nothing ever, ever sort of happens. So it’s going to take some time, I think, for the medical profession to sort of turn itself around. And as I said, you know, money talks and, you know, there’s a lot more money in pharmaceuticals in your region and nutrition.
Doctor Peter Brukner: , but, , you know, the results are just so dramatic. And it’s not just diabetes, you know, there’s a whole range of chronic diseases that are improved by, you know, there’s evidence recently about mental health issues being dramatically improved with, with, with diet and so on. So there’s a whole range of different things. We’re actually doing another study at the moment looking at the effect of diet on osteoarthritis. And , because that’s an inflammatory condition. And, you know, we believe that a proper anti-inflammatory diet will reduce that inflammation. And we’re getting really encouraging results from that. And we’ll hopefully publish that data next year. But , you know, all the studies show that if you can reduce inflammation with, with diet and that’s basically by, by removing, you know, sugars and processed foods and so on, and getting back to a real food diet, you can dramatically increase virtually every chronic disease there is. But it’s getting that message out there and countering the messages from the pharmaceutical industry. That’s a challenge for us.
Surani Fernando: I definitely mean, you know, bit about my background and the context of me having this discussion is that like, I’m a journalist, I studied science, I studied actually medical science. So the pre-med or a lot of my previous, you know, classmates are now doctors. And I do remember actually, in that medical science, there was one module, nutrition module and I found it so hard. It was so much biochemistry. It was just like. You know, it wasn’t like a very tangible sort of stuff, but yeah, like, I think that, , covering the industry, you really understand a lot of what goes on and, you know, the money that’s in it, funding the studies. Of course, there’s, you know, there’s lots of natural products and food and remedies, natural things that we have been using for years, thousands of years, you know, but if unless there’s evidence, unless there’s a statistically significant large clinical trial, then it just gets pushed to the side and it’s like, well, it hasn’t been proven, but you need money to prove a study and no one’s going to fund a study on, you know, some spikes or, or some, you know, some nutrition studies. So it’s hard. It’s hard.
Doctor Peter Brukner: It’s very challenging. So , yeah, I mean, we just need to, to keep talking to people and keep getting the word out there. And, the best advocates are our patients. You know, the patients are educating their doctors. You know, I mean, you get the classic case of, you know, someone goes to their doctor and the doctor says, oh, look, I’ve got bad news for you. You’ve got type two diabetes. You know, you know, here are some drugs and, you know, come back in three months. And the patient goes away and reads up, you know, gets on Doctor Google and reads up all about a low carb diet. Gets on a low carb diet, puts their diabetes into remission, goes back to the doctor in three months, and the doctor says, oh, that’s great. Those drugs have done a fantastic job. Yeah, the patient says, no, I threw that prescription in the bin. I’ve been on a low carb diet. And the doctor, oh, well, you know, changed the subject. You know, because they’re not, they’re not comfortable. It’s very confronting for them to be sort of confronted with this fact that diet works when they don’t understand diet, they don’t understand low carb, they don’t understand, you know, it’s not a hard concept.
Doctor Peter Brukner: But anyway, they don’t understand that. So, you know, your natural reaction is to get sort of very defensive and, and just, you know, change the subject and so on rather than, you know, saying, you know, well, that’s interesting. You know, tell me more about that or you know why, you know, why would that have happened? And so on. So, you know, it’s we’re. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, it’s very frustrating, but yeah, we’re chipping away. And as I said, I think, you know, patients are our best advocates, you know, because they’re there’s so many people out there whose lives are changed as a result of, , of improving their diet, of reducing the amount of processed foods and reducing the amount of sugar, the amount of vegetable oils and so on. And they’re, you know, they’re telling their friends and their practitioners and so on. And the word’s getting around, but it’s slow, you know, it’s one, one person at a time. But , we’ll get there.
Surani Fernando: And it is helpful to have, you know, someone like you that has that background, has the MD background, and then, you know, you’re an advocate for that other side as well. You know, the holistic approach, I’m sure you know that there’s a time and a place for medicine. But like, you know, you’ve got to like to dive into those other like, basic options, you know, you know, we’ve got the resources right there to at least take, you know, make a, make a shot. But I think, you know, there are people like you who have, you know, been in the medical profession and gone like, been in that world. And then there’s like a click there that’s like, hang on a minute. We need to be doing something else. There’s a whole area that we’ve been missing and, you know, speaking more about that and like within the community is , is, you know, I’m sure going to be fruitful. But I want to know, like, you know, with your program who can join it, like, is it would it be people that are pre-diabetic? Would it be people that have been diagnosed? Yeah. What type of person can join?
Doctor Peter Brukner: Yeah, we really are. I guess we really have three groups, I guess, you know, one is people who are diagnosed with type two diabetes, some newly diagnosed, some have been, you know, diagnosed for ten years. You know, I still have a good effect. Then there’s, , and there’s, you know, there’s obviously a lot of them, you know, there’s a huge number of people with prediabetes, you know, many of whom don’t know. They’ve got prediabetes, you know, but they may have something like a fatty liver that I, that I had, you know, like a third of all Australians have a fatty liver. That’s a pre-diabetic condition, you know, and , , or they might have high blood pressure or high triglycerides and so on. These are all pre-diabetic conditions. So that’s the second group that’s fine because they obviously, you know, once you’re aware you’re pre-diabetic, you want to do everything you can so you don’t finish up being, , being diabetic. And so, you know, they take that doing our program. And then the third, I guess is those who are just concerned, you know, they might have a family history of type two diabetes or, , or they may have read about it, and then they have to realize they don’t want to go down that track. So they were all, well, they might have some other chronic disease that benefits from, , from a low carb sort of approach.
Doctor Peter Brukner: So they’re really the three groups that would find that, that, that take up the program. It’s the sort of program that it’s not, you know, you’ve got to do this on this day. I mean, there’s you could do it at your own pace. You can do the whole thing in a day, or you can do the whole thing in, in, you know, six months. There’s just a lot of information. There’s a lot of information, a lot of background information, because we think it’s important that people understand, you know, what type two diabetes is and why. You know why this diet might work. It’s done very simply. It’s not very scientific. It’s very, very simple, simple language. , and then there’s the practical aspects of how you can manage your prediabetes or your diabetes. , so lots of things like information about foods, but also practical things, you know, like shopping and eating out and, and fast food and, and so I, we have a section on exercise. We have sections on stress. You know, it’s not just about diet, but the main focus is on a low carbohydrate eating approach that we find very effective. Yeah.
Surani Fernando: And another thing that, you know, I’ve talked to a lot of people about, especially where they’re seeing a lot of success in diabetes and reversing diabetes is also, you know, low carb is, you know, pretty standard. But then adding in a fast like long, fast into those , regimens. What? Where does that sit in your program?
Doctor Peter Brukner: Yeah, yeah, we certainly have a section on fasting. I mean, there’s a, you know, fasting is a very broad topic. You know, there’s the time restricted eating, you know, which is quite popular, which means that you tend to have all your meals in a, in a sort of a, you know, 6 to 8 hour period. And then you have a, you know, a fast if you like, you know, overnight. Personally, I eat two meals a day. I usually eat around sort of late morning and early evening. So I guess I do sort of time restricted eating. So that’s become very, very popular. And there seems to be some evidence that that helps. And then there are the longer fasts, you know, the one, two, three, seven day, you know, even 14 day fasts. I’ve not done that in a long. I’ve done it for 2 or 3 days. But, you know, I think there’s , certainly, you know, you talk to people who find it very therapeutic, very, very helpful. I think, you know, it’s something that, , that, you know, appeals to some people. It works for some people and not others. But I think the principle is absolutely right. And I think, you know, certainly for those with chronic disease, you know, I think an initial rebate of monthly fast can be very, very beneficial. So , yeah, I’m, you know, I’m not, , you know, strictly everyone has to fast whether or not that. But I, I certainly see advantages , in it and, .
Doctor Peter Brukner: Yeah, I think it’s a good, you know, chance to reset both physically and mentally. It’s not as hard as everyone thinks, you know, you think, oh, gosh, you know, I can’t go eight hours without being hungry. But once you get past that first sort of 24 hours or so, you know, you actually, surprisingly, are not particularly hungry, which is, , you know, hunger is the big sort of enemy of diet, you know, that. That’s why the low calorie diets fail, you know, because you’re hungry. I mean, take it back a step. We know there are three ways in which you can lose weight and put your diabetes into remission. Okay. First is bariatric surgery. You know, which works, you know, but so it should chopping out half your stomach or something like that should pretty, pretty radical, you know? And it’s got a lot of complications, a lot of dangers, a lot of side effects. But it works. The second one is a low calorie diet. So if you go on an 800 calorie a day diet and you’ll lose weight, absolutely no problems. But you’ll be hungry, hungry and angry. You know, I defy anyone to last too long on an 800 calorie a day diet. You know, it’s just you’re just constantly hungry, and that’s. And, you know, you never really break that diet. So after a week, a month or whatever, you break the diet, you then, you know, put on all your weight again, if not more, then you go back on another diet.
Doctor Peter Brukner: So this yo yo dieting, the people that you know, you hear a lot about. And that’s because it’s just not sustainable because you’re hungry. And then the third way is the low carbohydrate approach. And the reason that’s sustainable is because you’re not hungry, because you can eat as much, because carbohydrates make you hungry, right? Fats and proteins fill you up. So if you’re eating a diet of primarily fats and proteins, you get full, you get satiety, and you’re not hungry the whole time. And that’s why it’s sustainable. You know, people say to me, oh, you know, low carbohydrate ketogenic diets. Oh, it’s not sustainable. And I say two things to them. One is, I bet you’ve never tried it, because the only people who say it’s not sustainable are people who have never tried it. Because once you’ve tried it and you know it’s sustainable, and B you feel so good that you, you know, you’re motivated to, to do it. And then, you know, the other thing is they don’t really understand what you know, what a low carbohydrate diet is. But yeah, it’s you know, hunger is a massive issue. And , so but, you know, as I said, surprisingly with a, with a fast and if you’re eating some healthy fats and, , and proteins, you’re not, you’re not hungry. So , that’s the key to, I think, to long term dietary success. And that’s why it is sustainable in the long term. , which is, , you know, it’s very exciting.
Surani Fernando: And is there any guideline on, you know, like having more of a high protein diet versus like a high fat diet and all that stuff.
Doctor Peter Brukner: Yeah. Look, I’m not real strict on numbers. You know, I think, you know, once you eliminate most carbohydrates, , there are plenty of healthy fats around. You know, I’m very happy with, , with saturated fat, with animal fats. You know, I think there’s no, , all the all the so-called evidence, , demonizing, , you know, animal fat is is rubbish. So, you know, I just encourage, you know, a real food diet, so, you know, consisting of of meat and fish and eggs and dairy and lots of, , non-starchy vegetables and a little bit of fruits and berries for fruit. And, , you know, I think that’s, , that’s very sustainable. It’s very enjoyable. I eat really well, you know, I, I love every meal I have, you know, I enjoy it, you know, , later on this morning, I’ll probably have some, you know, eggs and avocado and bacon and so on. That’ll keep me going until, , you know, early evening. And I’ll have some, you know, meat or fish and some vegetables. I mean, I, you know, you can you can eat really well, I mean. Yeah, you know, people say, oh, it must be so hard. And I said, honestly, it’s not hard at all. It’s, it’s, it’s a it’s a pleasure eating that way. It really is. And I guess.
Surani Fernando: You just like you once you educate yourself on, like, what you need, you kind of eyeball your plate and you know, you’re getting, like, what you need and you’re not overdoing it with the carbs. And, like, with the carbs, it’s like the starchy carbs. I mean, the carbs coming from, like, vegetables and things like they’re, they’re they’re unlimited. Right? Like you can have.
Doctor Peter Brukner: Yeah. Well, yeah. That is not the non-starchy vegetables. Yeah. So green veg and so on. It’s a starchy veg. The problem with potatoes in particular and so on. But, . Yeah. Look, I think you can eat a lot of things, you know, it really. It’s not that not that difficult. And, , you know, I think things like, , you know, dairy, I mean, which has been demonized for ages, you know, I mean, I’m, I’m very comfortable having, , having dairy, you know, it’s it’s, you know, got a whole lot of, , nutrients in it and so on. So, yeah, I don’t think it’s difficult at all. I think protein is certainly important, particularly as you get older. You know, I think you need, , need really good, , you know, plenty of protein and good sources of protein, which really probably mainly means animal protein. It’s a lot better source of protein than vegetable protein. I mean, you can get, you know, adequate amounts of protein from vegetables. But really the high quality protein is from animals.
Surani Fernando: And are we talking like, you know, like the amino acids that you get from animal protein. Yeah.
Doctor Peter Brukner: Yeah. That’s right. Yeah. You get the complete proteins and so on. Whereas , with vegetables and you get , yeah, much, much better quality protein. But , but yeah, I’m not saying, I mean people, you know, don’t want to eat meat. That’s fine. You know, that’s their choice. And you can, you know, eat, eat healthy. But it’s it’s challenging. It’s difficult. And, , you know, I and I think, , you know, I’m a big proponent of meat and fish as sources of protein. I think they’re really good, really good sources of protein. And, , you know, same with, you know, fish. As I said, I try and have, you know, a couple of servings of fatty fish, something like salmon or something. , you know, twice a week, if I can. That’s really got a lot of good nutrients in it. Good protein, good fats, good healthy fats. So, yeah, you know, you can eat well, you can eat well. And it doesn’t have to be, you know, people sort of also have this sort of thing that you’ve got to have, you know, sort of steak every, you know, every meal and things like that.
Doctor Peter Brukner: I mean, it, you know, it doesn’t you can eat quite cheaply on this, on this diet as well. You know, you can have cheaper cuts of meat and fish and so on. And that and the other aspect about cost is that, you know, you eat a lot less. You know, you don’t. You only eat two meals a day. Usually, you know, you’re not eating and you’re not snacking the whole time, you know, and that’s expensive. You know, snacks are expensive. And you know, I don’t really snack if I, if I need a snack, I’ll have a handful of nuts or a bit of cheese or something, but I generally don’t. I just have two meals a day. And, , so, you know, while the quality of the food is, maybe a bit better than some of the, you know, the standard sort of crappy meals people have, you’re eating less of it. And , the cost is there. It finishes up being about the same. So yeah, it’s not it’s not prohibitively expensive the way some people like to think it is. Yeah, yeah.
Surani Fernando: And I think the biggest misconception that we have in, you know, society, as far as I can remember is , is breakfast with, you know, you need to get your high carb a lot of carbs in that first meal of the day. And typically, you know, ever since I was a child, I never felt hungry in the morning. And my I remember my dad used to, like, force me to eat my breakfast and I would, like, try and hide at places and I just I didn’t like cereal, but, you know, every now and then if I decide to join in breakfast with people and I, like, grab cereal or have some toast or croissant or something like that, I get so hungry later, like I would usually be able to sustain myself, you know, on something or, you know, sometimes an egg or something like that, that would be fine. But like with those carby things that are traditional breakfast meals, I’ll have that. And then by lunchtime I’m starving. And I think that’s like, that’s the carb, that’s the sugar high and the crap.
Doctor Peter Brukner: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you have sugar. You know, your body releases the insulin. It takes the sugar out of the blood into your system, and then your blood sugar drops and, you know, an hour and a half, two hours later, after having a carb meal, you’re hungry again. Which, of course, the food industry, the food industry loves that, you know, that’s fantastic. You know, so you have your, you know, your cereal for breakfast at 8:00 and then 10:00, you’re looking for your where’s the muffin trolley, you know. Yeah. So, you know, whereas if you have, you know, eggs and , and bacon or even, you know, sort of full fat Greek yogurt with some berries and nuts and so on, you know, you’re, you’re not, , not hungry an hour or two, an hour or two later. And you can sustain that for the, for the day. So, yeah, it’s, you know, the cereals, I mean, I call them, you know, cereal flavored sugars. I mean, that’s really all they are. Breakfast, you know, as you said, is not necessary. I mean, it’s basically it was invented by, by the cereal industry, you know, and, , I convinced everyone that, you know, breakfast is the most important meal of the day. How many times have you heard that? Yeah. And the absolutely no scientific evidence for that. That’s just a marketing tool. You know, I mean, and, you know, they’re very clever. They, you know, these these marketers, I mean, and you look at the breakfast cereals in the, in the supermarket aisle, they’re all these colors and toys and, you know, the, the kids saying, mommy, mommy, mommy, you know, like, I want that, I want that, you know, and then they advertise it very cleverly and so on. So, you know, it’s just a marketing.
Doctor Peter Brukner: It’s not a it’s not a nutrition thing. It’s all about marketing. And , you know, back in the old days, you know, you know, I mean, I remember, you know, my, my mother used to cook me, you know, scrambled eggs every morning, you know, and, and, , you know, I sort of went back, you know, stopped having that and, you know, decided I was going to get back into cereals and so on. , and , now I’ve swung, you know, swung the whole way around. I’m back yeah. Back into the, the way that my, you know, my parents and grandparents used to eat and because really, you know, a lot of these chronic diseases, you know, I mean, a modern diseases, you know, they, you know, heart attacks and type two diabetes hardly existed, you know, sort of a couple of generations ago. You know, and we’ve got to look at, you know, what’s changed. You know, people say we don’t do as much exercise. And that’s not actually not true. We actually do about the same amount of exercise as our grandparents. Just that they did it largely work, you know, was work related. And now it’s more leisure related. So what’s really changed is our diets. And you know, you’ve got to see that, you know, diet. The change in diet has led to the epidemic of chronic disease, whether it be diabetes or hypertension or heart disease or, or all these autoimmune diseases that, you know, didn’t exist back in the day. Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, all these are conditions that are so common now. And it’s basically as a result of our change of diet. And the sooner we get back to eating the way our grandparents ate, the better. Yeah.
Surani Fernando: All the processed food. I feel like, you know, I grew up, I was born in the 80s, you know, growing up in the 90s, that was like the worst time to be introduced to all this processed food and like, you know, weird tea, like, you know, fake cheese and less snack. I remember in Australia, like all this.
Doctor Peter Brukner: Oh, yeah. You look at, you know, you look at food labels. You know, I mean, you know, the sad thing is, now, you know, you have to take your glasses over to you to go to the supermarket. You got to read the food labels. But, you know, I mean, all these foods have, you know, they have, you know, 40 ingredients. You know, I mean, they have emulsifiers and flavorings and and this and that and so on. I mean, you know, you don’t need labels on meat and fish and vegetables and fruit and dairy, you know. I mean, yeah, you know, they’re natural and all these additives, you know, which makes the food last longer. You know, you look at, oh, you know, just the comparison breads are a classic example. You know, I mean, I was in, , I just recently been in Paris in the Olympics, you know, and so you get your, your baguette for the day and, , you know, if you don’t, if you don’t finish up eating it, you can’t eat it, you know, the next day because it’s all, you know, it’s all gone rock hard, you know, get a white loaf, a loaf of white bread here in Australia. You can eat it three weeks later, you know. Well, what’s gone into that to make it last three weeks, you know. And , you hate to think. Really? So I think, you know, a lot of our food has been, , has been altered and, , added to. And a lot of these additives are severely detrimental to our health.
Surani Fernando: Yeah, definitely. And I was curious about the people that come onto the program. Like, are they coming onto the program also taking medications like they’re, you know. Yeah. Some are.
Doctor Peter Brukner: Yeah. There’s a lot of variety, you know, some that, you know, the ones with, , really severe type two diabetes are on insulin. And by and large, you get off insulin. If you change your diet, then the majority are taking some sort of medication, whether it be metformin or one or the other , diabetes drugs. And yet and then there are others who are, you know, pre-diabetic or newly diagnosed with diabetics who don’t want to go onto the drugs, want to try a diet first. And it and they can usually stay off of drugs. So it’s a real spectra of people doing the program, but they all seem to benefit. And, you know, they all seem to improve their, you know, nearly all seem to improve their, , their, their hba1, which is the, the measure we use for their blood sugar levels and, , and so on. So it’s quite dramatic. And, you know, the feedback we get is is very positive. So , yeah, it sort of, as I said, keeps me going and encourages me to keep going because sometimes you get a bit frustrated that, you know, you’re not making any headway. But , yeah, we’ll keep at it. Yeah.
Surani Fernando: Yeah, definitely. And you know, you mentioned your own success story, but, you know, I think I saw a few stories on the website. Is there any one in particular that you’d like to share? I did see one. Maybe you don’t want to share this, but I did see one that stood out to me because it was like a Sri Lankan lady. And that’s like my family background. And, you know, the rice. I mean, we eat well in terms of a lot of good, you know, Nutrients, you know, like quite medicinal and Ayurvedic kind of stuff. But the rice Portia part is like the problem.
Doctor Peter Brukner: Yeah, but look, I think, you know, most Asian countries, you know, their, their bodies have adapted well to, to eating rice, you know, and, and it’s really only since the sort of the fast food has sort of invaded Asia that, that the, you know, the epidemic of obesity and type two diabetes is a, you know, has happened. I mean, they’re supposed to be 100 million diabetics now in, in China, you know, and then there’s a McDonald’s on every corner, you know, and, , so, you know, I think the traditional diets are, , even though, you know, some of them have, , have what we would regard as quite high levels of carbohydrate, like the, the, you know, the, the bodies have adapted well to that. And it’s really the sort of the, the sugar and the processed food that has, , invaded the countries, if you like, and led to the, , the health problems and the obesity issues in the, in the Asian countries. So, , yeah, you know, I wouldn’t tell, you know, Asian people not to not to eat rice, but, , they should avoid processed foods. That’s a problem. Yeah.
Surani Fernando: And, you know, we I know that they like, like their sugar. And my Sri Lankan grandma, you know, adding like, four teaspoons of sugar to her tea. I think that’s not helpful. Oh, no.
Doctor Peter Brukner: No, that probably is not a great, , not a great idea. No, it’s funny, isn’t it? I mean, you can actually people sort of say, oh, I’ve got a sweet tooth, or they love the taste of you. I mean, your taste buds actually change. I mean, , you know, if you stop having tea and sugar in your tea or coffee and so on, I mean, you know, for the first week or so, you don’t really enjoy the tea or coffee, but after a while, you know, you get, , your taste buds do change. And now if I have something that I would not have considered that sweet, you know, in the old days. And now it just tastes so sweet because you’re you’re just not used to. And one of the problems is that the food industry has got us addicted to sweetness, you know, and if we’re not eating sugar, we’re adding artificial sweeteners or whatever, which are probably just so you know, we’ve got to sort of wean yourself off this sweetness thing. And, , and that’s an important, important factor, I think.
Surani Fernando: Yeah. Well, my grandma did live until she was 94, almost 95, so it was okay. She must have been the other stuff she was putting in her food. Yeah, but. Great. Well, we’ve come to the end of the discussion. Is there any, like, final words that you want to, like, get out there for people who, like, you know, have high blood sugar, might be thinking about joining the program like just ways to get started if they’re not ready to. Yeah.
Doctor Peter Brukner: Yeah. Look, just go to our website. There’s a no obligation free trial. So, you know, you don’t have to , there’s plenty of information on there, but it’s a 14 day free trial, so you don’t have to, , sign up or pay any money. It’s very cheap anyway, but, . Yeah, just go and have a look around the website, have a look at some of the information there. And, , you know, I think you’ll find it pretty helpful. So , yeah, we have a pretty high rate of people who, , who start the free trial. Who go on to to to the program because they find it very, very helpful. So yeah. Defeat diabetes. Cosmo is the website. Yeah. , give it a go. And , it’ll be the best decision you ever made.
Surani Fernando: Okay, great. Well, thank you so much. Peter. This has been a great, insightful discussion. I’m sure our listeners have gained a lot from it. , for those who want to learn more about Peter Brukner and defeat diabetes, be sure to visit their website at Defeat Diabetes. Com.au. And this can be a global thing like you don’t have to be in Australia.
Doctor Peter Brukner: No absolutely no You know, you’ll hear a bit about Vegemite. But you know apart from that it’s pretty universal.
Surani Fernando: Yeah. Okay. Great. So visit that website and you can find out more and get that free trial. And , to our listeners, don’t forget to subscribe to Holistic Health Habits for more episodes featuring experts in the field. Until next time, I’m Sani Fernando. Take care and stay healthy.